From bqt@sofia.docs.uu.se Thu Feb 13 11:46:27 1992 Return-Path: Received: from cunixf.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (5.59/FCB) id AA03928; Thu, 13 Feb 92 11:46:20 EST Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (5.59/FCB) id AA12381; Thu, 13 Feb 92 11:46:20 EST Received: from sunic.sunet.se by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) id AA09492; Thu, 13 Feb 92 10:57:02 EST Received: from Sofia.DoCS.UU.SE by sunic.sunet.se (5.61+IDA/KTH/LTH/1.15) id AAsunic26079; Thu, 13 Feb 92 16:56:06 +0100 Received: by Sofia.DoCS.UU.SE (Sun-4/20, SunOS 4.1.1) with sendmail 5.61-bind 1.5+ida/ICU/DoCS id AA00654; Thu, 13 Feb 92 16:55:51 +0100 Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1992 16:55:48 MET From: Johnny Billquist Reply-To: bqt@bern.docs.uu.se To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu, info-pdp11@transarc.com, eps@reed.edu, parsons-list@cs.purdue.edu, ufh-i-exil@ufh.se Subject: Problems to reach me. Message-Id: Sorry if mail have bounced on me, I had a typo in my .forward Johnny Received: from eli.CS.YALE.EDU by BUGS.SYSTEMSY.CS.YALE.EDU; Fri, 14 Feb 92 16:19:05 EST Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Fri, 14 Feb 1992 16:19:00 -0500 Received: from silver.ucs.indiana.edu by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) id AA29820; Fri, 14 Feb 92 15:43:42 EST Message-Id: <9202142043.AA29820@life.ai.mit.edu> Received: by silver.ucs.indiana.edu (5.65c+/10jsm) id AA25977; Fri, 14 Feb 1992 15:43:30 -0500 Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1992 15:43:30 -0500 From: Jeff Russ To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: Request for your possible junk Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1992 15:43:30 -0500 From: Jeff Russ To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: Request for your possible junk I'm interested in buying any of the following DEC machines (or remains of): PDP1, PDP4, PDP5, PDP6, PDP7, PDP8, PDP9, PDP12, PDP15, LINC-8 I'm also looking for old Flip-Chip modules, System Modules, Logic Labs, Computer Labs, DEC Tape drives, and schematics/documentation on the PDP1, PDP4, PDP5, PDP6, and PDP7 systems. Jeff Russ, Bloomington, Indiana iuvax!silver!russ russ@silver.ucs.indiana.edu Home: (812)336-9987 Work: (812)335-2733 Received: from eli.CS.YALE.EDU by BUGS.SYSTEMSY.CS.YALE.EDU; Fri, 14 Feb 92 17:02:11 EST Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Fri, 14 Feb 1992 17:02:08 -0500 Received: from Sun.COM by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) id AA00972; Fri, 14 Feb 92 16:29:44 EST Received: from snail.Sun.COM (snail.Corp.Sun.COM) by Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA29789; Fri, 14 Feb 92 13:28:37 PST Received: from East.Sun.COM by snail.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA25956; Fri, 14 Feb 92 13:28:35 PST Received: from suneast.East.Sun.COM by East.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02149; Fri, 14 Feb 92 16:28:34 EST Received: from pdp8.East.Sun.COM by suneast.East.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA01394; Fri, 14 Feb 92 16:21:27 EST Received: by pdp8.East.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13976; Fri, 14 Feb 92 16:28:32 EST Date: Fri, 14 Feb 92 16:28:32 EST From: Jonathan.Dreyer@east.sun.com (Jon Dreyer -- Sun PC Networking) Message-Id: <9202142128.AA13976@pdp8.East.Sun.COM> To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: original price of original pdp-8? Date: Fri, 14 Feb 92 16:28:32 EST From: Jonathan.Dreyer@east.sun.com (Jon Dreyer -- Sun PC Networking) To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: original price of original pdp-8? Does anybody know what the price was of a minimally-configured PDP-8 (no suffix) when it was first introduced? What was the minimal configuration? Any other interesting tidbits about that machine? Since I'll probably get lots of answers, please send them only to me and I'll summarize. Received: from eli.CS.YALE.EDU by BUGS.SYSTEMSY.CS.YALE.EDU; Wed, 19 Feb 92 16:30:52 EST Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Wed, 19 Feb 1992 16:30:31 -0500 Received: from Sun.COM by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) id AA25022; Wed, 19 Feb 92 15:53:33 EST Received: from snail.Sun.COM (snail.Corp.Sun.COM) by Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA20018; Wed, 19 Feb 92 12:53:29 PST Received: from East.Sun.COM by snail.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09411; Wed, 19 Feb 92 12:53:27 PST Received: from suneast.East.Sun.COM by East.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA17876; Wed, 19 Feb 92 15:53:26 EST Received: from pdp8.East.Sun.COM by suneast.East.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12753; Wed, 19 Feb 92 15:46:15 EST Received: by pdp8.East.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA28427; Wed, 19 Feb 92 15:53:21 EST Date: Wed, 19 Feb 92 15:53:21 EST From: Jonathan.Dreyer@east.sun.com (Jon Dreyer -- Sun PC Networking) Message-Id: <9202192053.AA28427@pdp8.East.Sun.COM> To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu, Jonathan.Dreyer@east.sun.com Subject: Re: original price of original pdp-8? Date: Wed, 19 Feb 92 15:53:21 EST From: Jonathan.Dreyer@east.sun.com (Jon Dreyer -- Sun PC Networking) To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu, Jonathan.Dreyer@east.sun.com Subject: Re: original price of original pdp-8? > Does anybody know what the price was of a minimally-configured PDP-8 > (no suffix) when it was first introduced? What was the minimal > configuration? Any other interesting tidbits about that machine? This is probably the "definitive" answer: ---------begin-------- From: Charles Lasner $18,500 for 4K,teletype rack mount (from sales literature) $ 4,500 for 4K more (not counting ext mem control) ---------end---------- I suspect the following applies not to the PDP-8, but to one of its descendants, I suspect the 8/L or 8/S: ---------begin-------- From: ph@ama.caltech.edu (Paul Hardy) It was the first "minicomputer" to cost under $10,000 when it was first introduced -- that was one of its big selling points. ---------end---------- Thanks, all. Jon Received: from eli.CS.YALE.EDU by BUGS.SYSTEMSY.CS.YALE.EDU; Wed, 19 Feb 92 19:46:08 EST Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Wed, 19 Feb 1992 19:46:01 -0500 Received: from watsun.cc.columbia.edu by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) id AA07556; Wed, 19 Feb 92 19:17:08 EST Received: by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (5.59/FCB) id AA12976; Wed, 19 Feb 92 19:17:05 EST Date: Wed, 19 Feb 92 19:17:04 EST From: Charles Lasner To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: $10,000 system Message-Id: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 92 19:17:04 EST From: Charles Lasner To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: $10,000 system I think Jon is right. The PDP-8/l was usefully available for under $10,000 with a teletype and TC08/TU56 and 4K. This system can run P?S/8 and crawl the Disk Monitor. The original PDP-8 with 4K, TC01 and only ONE TU55 cost well over $20,000, so this $10,000 claim is a little exaggerated relative to the -8. I would also point out that a similarly configured PDP-5 with 552 DECtape controller and a single 555 drive would cost even more. However, a PDP-8/s processor was available soon after the -8, and was well under $10K, but is very slow, incompatible, and stripped down. Only specially self-modified FOCAL, 1969 and the Disk Monitor with a specially slowed-down DF32 can run on it. Most of its market was for dedicated CPU's imbedded in large scientific instruments such as Picker Instruments counters, etc. Brooklyn Poly had a prototype of one of these, which had an actual -8 as part of the whole setup. The advertising literature shows an -8/s and a whole lot less real estate in the room to solve the same application. By the time you have upgraded an -8/s to have "useful" peripherals on it, the cost difference fades, and the false economy of the -8/s's limitations really start hurting. Yet, there were known configurations such as DF32 with two platters, high-speed reader/punch, teletype hooked to a 4K -8/s :-(. Even as late as when the -8/l was introduced, these machines were still being used. I am sure the maintenance costs alone were more than the cost to upgrade to an -8/l :-). In any case, -8/e systems with RX01 were available for under $10,000 including extended memory, probably 8K. The 6100 chip made it possible to have the VT-78 for a lot less. This would still compare favorably with the hobbyist-oriented micros of the day, since most of them were as expensive or more when configured that "large." (Most hobby micros were glorified "toys" which used ROM's, not mass storage. Near-mythical configurations were possible, but not often seen. This was also before CP/M-80 even existed, so having the hardware wouldn't get you any utility to speak of. PDP-8's have always had useful software available since at least 1968. (Earlier than that is a matter of opinion about the Disk Monitor System :-). Today, it is possible to get a similar system for almost free :-). Some people have paid a few $100's for complete systems. In some circumstances, it's yours for the asking, but you have to haul it away. There was an amusing situation where a user site gave away their -8/e system because "they had to upgrade to a machine with a larger disk." The replacement system was an IBM system 3x (forget which) where the fixed and slow winchester disk is only indirectly accessible. You have to load a 10-box magazine of floppies which are auto-loaded onto/off-of the disk as part of the boot process. The software took a half-hour to auto-load either way, so you have to wait that long to boot the machine typically. the application wasn't the issue, as the company offered PDP-8, 11, and IBM versions of their "package" which I believe was written in BASIC or RPG as necessary. Physical space wasn't an issue either, because the site had a "computer room" for this and other facilities, including report and tape/disk storage, etc. The -8/e system consisted of 3 short cabinets. There were a total of four 2.5 Meg RK8E disks, each quickly dismountable with removable media. I guess they got what they needed: ONE disk that was larger than ONE of their FOUR RK disks :-) :-) :-). (Total capacity was 5.0, not 10.0 megs, notwithstanding the floppy access restriction.) cjl Received: from eli.CS.YALE.EDU by BUGS.SYSTEMSY.CS.YALE.EDU; Sun, 23 Feb 92 18:55:30 EST Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Sun, 23 Feb 1992 18:55:27 -0500 Received: from silver.ucs.indiana.edu by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) id AA06075; Sun, 23 Feb 92 18:42:13 EST Message-Id: <9202232342.AA06075@life.ai.mit.edu> Received: by silver.ucs.indiana.edu (5.65c+/10jsm) id AA20398; Sun, 23 Feb 1992 18:42:11 -0500 Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1992 18:42:11 -0500 From: Jeff Russ To: PDP8-LOVERS@ai.mit.edu Subject: Grasshopper fuses and wire lead lamps Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1992 18:42:11 -0500 From: Jeff Russ To: PDP8-LOVERS@ai.mit.edu Subject: Grasshopper fuses and wire lead lamps Does anyone know of a source for grasshopper fuses used in the old DEC machines (PDP8, PDP9, LINC-8)? I haven't been able to locate them in any catalogs. I'm also looking for some of the 28 volt wire lead lamps used in the older machines. (LED's don't have the charm of real incandesent lamps). ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jeff Russ russ@silver.ucs.indiana.edu University Computing Services PHONE: (812) 855-2733 Indiana University, Bloomington, IN I want to buy old PDP[4-9] systems.