Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by BUGS.SYSTEMSY.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Fri, 5 Feb 1993 23:38:49 -0500 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Fri, 5 Feb 1993 23:38:43 -0500 Received: from ns-mx.uiowa.edu by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) id AA27633; Fri, 5 Feb 93 23:08:59 EST Received: from pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu by ns-mx.uiowa.edu (5.64.jnf/920408) on Fri, 5 Feb 93 22:08:55 -0600 id AA16754 with SMTP Received: by pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (5.59/890218) on Fri, 5 Feb 93 21:57:12 CST id AA12684 Date: Fri, 5 Feb 93 21:57:12 CST From: Douglas W. Jones Message-Id: <9302060357.AA12684@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu> To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: It works! Date: Fri, 5 Feb 93 21:57:12 CST From: Douglas W. Jones To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: It works! Thanks to help from a large number of you, plus more than a few hours of time spent unsoldering, searching for chips, and poking around here and there with my voltmeter, I now have a functional PDP-8/F. As of a few minutes ago, I loaded the following trivial program from the front panel, and it ran as expected: CLA L, ISZ C JMP L IAC JMP L C, 0 Not very exciting, but it's a big step up from where I've been for the last six months with this antique. Of course, I wasn't supposed to be fiddling with the old machine today, I was supposed to be in Washington talking to the army about my work, but the airport was fogbound, so I've got free time on my hands until the fog lifts. Doug Jones jones@cs.uiowa.edu Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by BUGS.SYSTEMSY.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Sun, 7 Feb 1993 08:13:08 -0500 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Sun, 7 Feb 1993 08:13:05 -0500 Received: from volitans.MorningStar.Com by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) id AA19810; Sun, 7 Feb 93 07:43:02 EST Received: from trigger.morningstar.com by volitans.MorningStar.Com (5.65a/92122901) id AA04777; Sun, 7 Feb 93 07:42:57 -0500 Received: by trigger.MorningStar.Com (5.65a/93011501) id AA17772; Sun, 7 Feb 93 07:42:22 -0500 Received: by n8emr.cmhnet.org (Ohio AMPR Gateway Smail3.1.16.1 #16.33) id ; Sun, 7 Feb 93 07:38 EST Received: from kumiss by jcnpc.cmhnet.org with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #3) id m0nL7mF-0001TCC; Sun, 7 Feb 93 03:54 EST Received: by kumiss.cmhnet.org (V1.16/Amiga) id AA00668; Sun, 7 Feb 93 00:36:21 EDT Date: Sun, 7 Feb 93 00:36:21 EDT Message-Id: <9302070436.AA00667@kumiss.cmhnet.org> From: erd@kumiss.cmhnet.org (Ethan Dicks) To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: Component level repair and logic families Date: Sun, 7 Feb 93 00:36:21 EDT From: erd@kumiss.cmhnet.org (Ethan Dicks) To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: Component level repair and logic families I have just completed a test clip so that I can identify individual chip failures in my large collection of FLIP-CHIP M-series modules. Now that I know which parts are actually bad, I need to seek out replacements. The chips are basically all straight TTL family with date codes in the late '60s. What logic families are any of you using to substitute for failed TTL logic gates? 74xx? 74LSxx? 74HCTxx? I'd like to use a newer logic family to save power. The supplies are linear, so reduced current draw shouldn't be a problem. I wouldn't expect to see any measurable reduction in current unless I replaced more than 5% of the M-series chips, but every little bit counts when you're running a 6-amp box. -ethan Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by BUGS.SYSTEMSY.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Sun, 7 Feb 1993 11:46:24 -0500 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Sun, 7 Feb 1993 11:46:22 -0500 Received: from intercon.com by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) id AA21524; Sun, 7 Feb 93 11:28:06 EST Received: from flagstone.keepe.intercon.com by intercon.com via SMTP (911016.SGI/920928.RS) for pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu id AA06673; Sun, 7 Feb 93 11:27:50 -0500 X-Mailer: InterCon TCP/Connect II 1.1b34 Message-Id: <9302071127.AA44825@flagstone.intercon.com> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1993 11:27:44 -0500 From: "Robert E. Seastrom" To: erd@kumiss.cmhnet.org (Ethan Dicks), pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: Re: Component level repair and logic families X-Mailer: InterCon TCP/Connect II 1.1b34 Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1993 11:27:44 -0500 From: "Robert E. Seastrom" To: erd@kumiss.cmhnet.org (Ethan Dicks), pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: Re: Component level repair and logic families > From: erd@kumiss.cmhnet.org (Ethan Dicks) > What logic families are any of you using to substitute for failed > TTL logic gates? 74xx? 74LSxx? 74HCTxx? I'd like to use a > newer logic family to save power. The supplies are linear, so > reduced current draw shouldn't be a problem. I wouldn't expect to see > any measurable reduction in current unless I replaced more than > 5% of the M-series chips, but every little bit counts when you're > running a 6-amp box. Actually, you should try to replace 74xx chips with 74xx chips. The Schottky low-power chips and the CMOS imitation TTL chips generally speaking can't drive as many other chips' inputs with their outputs as plain 7400s. Both flavors of "new improved" TTL were designed as power savers, so it is understandable that they aren't as studlY in the output department. The net result would be a module that worked fine in your test jig, but was marginal in a machine - definitely not the sort of thing you want to have kicking around. ---Rob Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by BUGS.SYSTEMSY.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Mon, 8 Feb 1993 16:02:49 -0500 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Mon, 8 Feb 1993 16:02:47 -0500 Received: from ns-mx.uiowa.edu by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) id AA17408; Mon, 8 Feb 93 15:20:33 EST Received: from pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu by ns-mx.uiowa.edu (5.64.jnf/920408) on Mon, 8 Feb 93 14:20:30 -0600 id AA03725 with SMTP Received: by pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (5.59/890218) on Mon, 8 Feb 93 14:08:02 CST id AA01938 Date: Mon, 8 Feb 93 14:08:02 CST From: Douglas W. Jones Message-Id: <9302082008.AA01938@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu> To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: PDP-12 available Date: Mon, 8 Feb 93 14:08:02 CST From: Douglas W. Jones To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: PDP-12 available I got E-mail from Tom Bereiter (twb@tivoli.com) that there is a PDP-12 being auctioned off tomorrow (Tuesday 2/8) at the University of Texas. Is anyone down there who can get to the auction? If not, you'll have to try to convince Tom to go on your behalf. He is not (emphasize that) personally interested in old DEC equipment. He didn't know what a PDP-12 was, and he probably doesn't want to go to the work of hauling the machine anywhere or boxing the pieces for shipment. I don't even know what UT campus this is at. Doug Jones jones@cs.uiowa.edu Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by BUGS.SYSTEMSY.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Mon, 8 Feb 1993 17:01:33 -0500 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Mon, 8 Feb 1993 17:01:25 -0500 Received: from uucp-gw-2.pa.dec.com by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) id AA15861; Mon, 8 Feb 93 14:27:09 EST Received: by uucp-gw-2.pa.dec.com; id AA14372; Mon, 8 Feb 93 11:18:22 -0800 Received: by llustig.palo-alto.ca.us (1.65/waf) via UUCP; Mon, 08 Feb 93 10:59:49 PST for pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: Re: Component level repair and logic families From: david@llustig.palo-alto.ca.us (David Schachter) Message-Id: <3D3NyB2w165w@llustig.palo-alto.ca.us> Date: Mon, 08 Feb 93 10:54:49 PST Organization: Greenwire Consulting, Palo Alto, CA, USA To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: Re: Component level repair and logic families From: david@llustig.palo-alto.ca.us (David Schachter) Date: Mon, 08 Feb 93 10:54:49 PST Organization: Greenwire Consulting, Palo Alto, CA, USA As Mr. Seastrom writes, it is best to do exact replacements: 74xx with 74xx. But, if memory serves, 74S (Schottky) has about the same drive capability as plain 74. Schottky parts are faster, though, so you could have noise problems. 74LS doesn't have as much drive capability as plain 74; if you know the fanouts are modest, there won't be a problem. 74HCT is similar. In summary: stick with 74xx replacements if you can, otherwise, look at the circuit to decided whether to use 74S or 74LS/74HCT. Your decision may be made simpler by the unavailability of some of the older parts! (Does anyone still make 74S or plain 74?) Or you could have a PC fab shop make new boards and stuff 'em with Xilinx universal parts or PALs/PLAs.... but that's cheating, big time. -- David Schachter P.S. My knowledge may be out of date. Look in a National Semiconductor, Motorola, or TI databook for an appendix on cross-family compatibility. _____________________________________________________________________________ David Schachter david@llustig.palo-alto.ca.us 801 Middlefield Road, #8 CompuServe: 70714,3017 Palo Alto, CA 94301-2916 USA After 10 am, voice & fax: +1 415 328 7425 Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by BUGS.SYSTEMSY.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Mon, 8 Feb 1993 22:35:45 -0500 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Mon, 8 Feb 1993 22:35:35 -0500 Received: from albert.gnu.ai.mit.edu by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) id AA26851; Mon, 8 Feb 93 22:12:23 EST Received: from hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu by albert.gnu.ai.mit.edu (5.65/4.0) with SMTP id ; Mon, 8 Feb 93 22:12:06 -0500 Received: by hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.0) id ; Mon, 8 Feb 1993 21:12:20 -0600 Message-Id: <9302090312.AA19143@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu> To: Douglas W. Jones Cc: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu, info-pdp11@transarc.com Subject: Re: PDP-12 available In-Reply-To: (Your message of Mon, 08 Feb 93 14:08:02 CST.) <9302082008.AA01938@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu> Date: Mon, 08 Feb 93 21:12:20 -0600 From: Chris Petrilli To: Douglas W. Jones Cc: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu, info-pdp11@transarc.com Subject: Re: PDP-12 available In-Reply-To: (Your message of Mon, 08 Feb 93 14:08:02 CST.) <9302082008.AA01938@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu> Date: Mon, 08 Feb 93 21:12:20 -0600 From: Chris Petrilli >>>>> On Mon, 8 Feb 93 14:08:02 CST, Douglas W. Jones >>>>> said: Doug> I got E-mail from Tom Bereiter (twb@tivoli.com) that there is a Doug> PDP-12 being auctioned off tomorrow (Tuesday 2/8) at the Doug> University of Texas. Is anyone down there who can get to the Doug> auction? If not, you'll have to try to convince Tom to go on Doug> your behalf. He is not (emphasize that) personally interested Doug> in old DEC equipment. He didn't know what a PDP-12 was, and he Doug> probably doesn't want to go to the work of hauling the machine Doug> anywhere or boxing the pieces for shipment. I saw it as well, it looks to be a fully equiped unit with several DECtape drives, and a couple other things. It's in a BIG rack (full 19"). I'll see if I can snag it tomorrow if it's not going for too much. Doug> I don't even know what UT campus this is at. University of Texas at Austin. They have an auction every couple months. There's also an Alliant FX/8 supercomputer, and a PDP-11/34a. There's also what I think are repackaged 11s, called: Scientific Microsystems SMX-11 (or something like that). Anyone know? Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by BUGS.SYSTEMSY.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Sat, 13 Feb 1993 21:28:21 -0500 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Sat, 13 Feb 1993 21:28:19 -0500 Received: from ns-mx.uiowa.edu by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) id AA28414; Sat, 13 Feb 93 21:07:17 EST Received: from pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu by ns-mx.uiowa.edu (5.64.jnf/920408) on Sat, 13 Feb 93 20:07:13 -0600 id AA23332 with SMTP Received: by pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (5.59/890218) on Sat, 13 Feb 93 20:06:34 CST id AA06721 Date: Sat, 13 Feb 93 20:06:34 CST From: Douglas W. Jones Message-Id: <9302140206.AA06721@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu> To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: MMI 8K memory boards Date: Sat, 13 Feb 93 20:06:34 CST From: Douglas W. Jones To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: MMI 8K memory boards I have 3 MMI 8K omnibus memory boards which I'm trying to decypher. There are two different versions of the etch, which doesn't help, and they have a fair number of 74H chips on them, which limits their ultimate maintainability, but other than that, they look useful. My problem: I have no documentation, and the boards have lots of ground planes, making the etch hard to trace, particularly under chips. I've worked out the jumpering for address select, I think, but there's another group of jumpers that leaves me puzzled. Here's the problem, in ASCII art form: | | | ____ ____ ____ ____ ____ ____ ____ ____ ____ | | _ |____||____||____||____| |____| |____| |____| |____| |____| | | | | 12345678 AB | | | | ____ ____ ____ ____ ____ ____ ____ ____ ____ | | |_| |____||____||____||____| |____| |____| |____| |____| |____| | | _ FEDC | | | | ____ ____ ____ ____ ____ ____ | | | | |____||____| |____| |____| |____| |____| | | |_| | |_ __|| _|| __|| | | | | | | | | | |_____________| |______________| |______________| |______________| The letters and digits in the above represent the solder-forks for jumpers. The grouping 12345678 AB is the address select group, as near as I can tell. The digits 1 to 8 correspond to fields 7 through 0, respectively, and the letters A and B correspond to the two fields worth of storage supported by the board. You just wire A and B to the pins corresponding to the fields you want. That's fine, except for the missed chance to label the board so that pin 2 corresponds to field 2 instead of corresponding to field 6! But, I haven't figured out the FEDC grouping of pins. Any ideas? Better yet, does anyone have actual MMI documentation of this board, in the forms of schematics or a user's guide? Doug Jones jones@cs.uiowa.edu Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by BUGS.SYSTEMSY.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Sat, 13 Feb 1993 21:34:35 -0500 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Sat, 13 Feb 1993 21:34:33 -0500 Received: from ns-mx.uiowa.edu by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) id AA28537; Sat, 13 Feb 93 21:15:28 EST Received: from pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu by ns-mx.uiowa.edu (5.64.jnf/920408) on Sat, 13 Feb 93 20:15:26 -0600 id AA23354 with SMTP Received: by pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (5.59/890218) on Sat, 13 Feb 93 20:14:47 CST id AA06727 Date: Sat, 13 Feb 93 20:14:47 CST From: Douglas W. Jones Message-Id: <9302140214.AA06727@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu> To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: KM8E documentation? Date: Sat, 13 Feb 93 20:14:47 CST From: Douglas W. Jones To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: KM8E documentation? I've finally got around to putting a KM8E (M837) board in my old PDP-8/F, and although it's slow going toggling code in from the front panel, I've done enough to convince myself that the board is at least partly useful. My problem is that I don't have the schematics and technical specifications (The latter are typed materials DEC liked to produce to accompany their drawings). The board I have doesn't match the maintenance manual in at least one key particular - the jumper that the manual suggests must be removed to enable the time-share option was never installed -- I see no evidence of a factory installed jumper, and the two solder-fork connectors are in virgin condition. So, did DEC manufacture M837 boards without the jumper, or am I misreading the maintenance manual? In any case, if I had schematics for the M837, I'd be able to verify my reading of the manual without bothering the net. Doug Jones jones@cs.uiowa.edu Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by BUGS.SYSTEMSY.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Sun, 14 Feb 1993 17:49:31 -0500 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Sun, 14 Feb 1993 17:49:27 -0500 Received: from dmssyd.syd.dms.CSIRO.AU by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) id AA11521; Sun, 14 Feb 93 17:23:02 EST Received: from swifty.dap.CSIRO.AU by dmssyd.syd.dms.CSIRO.AU (4.1/5.17) id AA18736; Mon, 15 Feb 93 09:22:40 EST (from steveq@dap.csiro.au) Received: by swifty.dap.CSIRO.AU (920330.SGI/5.17) id AA18722; Mon, 15 Feb 93 09:22:37 +1100 (from steveq@dap.csiro.au (Stephen Quigg)) From: steveq@dap.csiro.au (Stephen Quigg) Message-Id: <9302142222.AA18722@swifty.dap.CSIRO.AU> Subject: PDP-8 software To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu (pdp8-lovers ) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1993 09:22:36 +1100 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 740 From: steveq@dap.csiro.au (Stephen Quigg) Subject: PDP-8 software To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu (pdp8-lovers ) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1993 09:22:36 +1100 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 740 I sent the following to the alt.sys.pdp8 newsgroup but got no replies. Perhaps someone on the mailing list can help. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I've had an 8/E for some time now, just sitting in the garage. The only software I've got is the RIM loader :-) :-). Any one out there have anything they can send on the net, such as BIN loader, PALIII assembler, FOCAL, BASIC etc? (Better still, is any of this stuff available anonymous FTP ( I've already looked on apache.telebit.com; good stuff but I can't use it (yet)). The /e has 16KW, a high-speed punch/reader and an ASR-33 teletype. Also has an A/D and D/A system in the top of the rack. Thanks in advance. Steve Quigg. Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by BUGS.SYSTEMSY.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Sun, 14 Feb 1993 21:37:58 -0500 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Sun, 14 Feb 1993 21:37:56 -0500 Received: from ns-mx.uiowa.edu by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) id AA14283; Sun, 14 Feb 93 21:14:32 EST Received: from pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu by ns-mx.uiowa.edu (5.64.jnf/920408) on Sun, 14 Feb 93 20:14:30 -0600 id AA28038 with SMTP Received: by pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (5.59/890218) on Sun, 14 Feb 93 20:13:50 CST id AA07465 Date: Sun, 14 Feb 93 20:13:50 CST From: Douglas W. Jones Message-Id: <9302150213.AA07465@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu> To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: Retraction Date: Sun, 14 Feb 93 20:13:50 CST From: Douglas W. Jones To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: Retraction I just discovered that I do have a complete set of KM8-E schematics, the set that originally came with one of my KM8-E boards, no less! It's my only set of schematics that's a full-sized original; it keeps falling out of the binder where I store it, and I've been ignoring it while I leaf through the half-size photocopies I have of the other relevant PDP-8/E/F/M schematics! Doug Jones jones@cs.uiowa.edu Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by BUGS.SYSTEMSY.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Thu, 25 Feb 1993 20:24:23 -0500 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Thu, 25 Feb 1993 20:24:18 -0500 Received: from silver.ucs.indiana.edu by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) id AA00855; Thu, 25 Feb 93 19:52:41 EST Message-Id: <9302260052.AA00855@life.ai.mit.edu> Received: by silver.ucs.indiana.edu (5.65c+/10jsm) id AA21925; Thu, 25 Feb 1993 19:52:22 -0500 Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1993 19:52:22 -0500 From: Jeff Russ To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: RK05, RX01/Rx02 questions Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1993 19:52:22 -0500 From: Jeff Russ To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: RK05, RX01/Rx02 questions This past week I picked up some RK05, RX01 and RX02 drives that were used on PDP11 systems. Are the drives compatible with PDP8 systems? RK05 question: I remember hearing that for the RK05 there is a pcb trace under an IC that needs to be cut. Has anyone else heard this? RX01 questions: Does anyone have a maintenace manual for the RX01 drives and controllers? I'll pay for copying and shipping. What is the proper alignment for the Berg connectors when hooking up the drives and the Omnibus controller? RX02 question: Will the RX02 drives work with an RX01 disk controller? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jeff Russ russ@silver.ucs.indiana.edu University Computing Services PHONE: (812) 855-2733 Indiana University, Bloomington, IN I want to buy old PDP[4-9] systems. Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by BUGS.SYSTEMSY.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Thu, 25 Feb 1993 21:40:59 -0500 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Thu, 25 Feb 1993 21:40:57 -0500 Received: from ns-mx.uiowa.edu by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) id AA02712; Thu, 25 Feb 93 21:21:48 EST Received: from pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu by ns-mx.uiowa.edu (5.64.jnf/920408) on Thu, 25 Feb 93 20:21:44 -0600 id AA08886 with SMTP Received: by pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (5.59/890218) on Thu, 25 Feb 93 20:21:09 CST id AA03765 Date: Thu, 25 Feb 93 20:21:09 CST From: Douglas W. Jones Message-Id: <9302260221.AA03765@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu> To: russ@silver.ucs.indiana.edu Subject: Re: RK05, RX01/Rx02 questions Cc: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Date: Thu, 25 Feb 93 20:21:09 CST From: Douglas W. Jones To: russ@silver.ucs.indiana.edu Subject: Re: RK05, RX01/Rx02 questions Cc: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu I have an rx01 maintenance manual. I'll have a copy made. The manual has a page documenting the Berg connector hookup, but it does seem less than clear. The Rx01 and Rx02 drives work with the same Omnibus interface. The only difference is at the far end. The RX01 can be used from either a PDP8 or a PDP-11, and the manual applies equally to both. The rule for the cable (a BC05L-15 cable) is that the loop of cable held by the strain relief should be adjacent to the printed circuit board, and the cut ends of the ribbon should face away from the printed circuit board. This prevents bits of conductive flotsom from shorting a trace on the board to a conductor in the cable. I have one BC05L cable, and one RX8E board to run my two RX01 units. If I could get my hands on another RX8E board, I'd be very happy. Doug Jones jones@cs.uiowa.edu Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by BUGS.SYSTEMSY.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Thu, 25 Feb 1993 23:26:32 -0500 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Thu, 25 Feb 1993 23:26:26 -0500 Received: from destroyer.rs.itd.umich.edu by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) id AA04572; Thu, 25 Feb 93 23:00:17 EST Received: from netmeg.UUCP by destroyer.rs.itd.umich.edu (5.65/2.2) id AA19791; Thu, 25 Feb 93 22:17:34 -0500 Received: by netmeg.ann-arbor.mi.us (Smail3.1.27.1 #5) id m0nRvIm-0003AAC; Thu, 25 Feb 93 21:59 EST Message-Id: From: meg@netmeg.ann-arbor.mi.us (Meg Geddes) Subject: Re: RK05, RX01/Rx02 questions To: russ@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Jeff Russ) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1993 21:59:51 -0500 (EST) Cc: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu In-Reply-To: <9302260052.AA00855@life.ai.mit.edu> from "Jeff Russ" at Feb 25, 93 07:52:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL6] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 578 From: meg@netmeg.ann-arbor.mi.us (Meg Geddes) Subject: Re: RK05, RX01/Rx02 questions To: russ@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Jeff Russ) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1993 21:59:51 -0500 (EST) Cc: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu In-Reply-To: <9302260052.AA00855@life.ai.mit.edu> from "Jeff Russ" at Feb 25, 93 07:52:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL6] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 578 ->RK05 question: -> -> I remember hearing that for the RK05 there is a pcb trace -> under an IC that needs to be cut. Has anyone else heard -> this? It's been a while, but my remembrance is that the drives are the same whether they are PDP11 or PDP8, it's the pack that are different (16 bit vs 12 bit) ->RX02 question: -> -> Will the RX02 drives work with an RX01 disk controller? Yep. RX8E (M8357, I believe) -- Meg Geddes Ann Arbor, MI meg@netmeg.ann-arbor.mi.us Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by BUGS.SYSTEMSY.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Thu, 25 Feb 1993 23:53:08 -0500 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Thu, 25 Feb 1993 23:53:04 -0500 Received: from sunic.sunet.se by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) id AA04995; Thu, 25 Feb 93 23:30:24 EST Received: from Bern.DoCS.UU.SE by sunic.sunet.se (5.65c8-/1.28) id AA16190; Fri, 26 Feb 1993 05:30:21 +0100 Received: by Bern.DoCS.UU.SE (Sun-4/75, SunOS 4.1.1) with sendmail 5.61-bind 1.5+ida/ICU/DoCS id AA08919; Fri, 26 Feb 93 05:30:19 +0100 From: Johnny Billquist Date: Fri, 26 Feb 93 5:30:18 MET Reply-To: bqt@minsk.docs.uu.se To: Jeff Russ Cc: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: Re: RK05, RX01/Rx02 questions In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 25 Feb 1993 19:52:22 -0500 Message-Id: From: Johnny Billquist Date: Fri, 26 Feb 93 5:30:18 MET Reply-To: bqt@minsk.docs.uu.se To: Jeff Russ Cc: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: Re: RK05, RX01/Rx02 questions In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 25 Feb 1993 19:52:22 -0500 >This past week I picked up some RK05, RX01 and RX02 drives that >were used on PDP11 systems. Are the drives compatible with >PDP8 systems? Yes. >RK05 question: > > I remember hearing that for the RK05 there is a pcb trace > under an IC that needs to be cut. Has anyone else heard > this? Doubt it. The RK05 is the same for both pdp8 and pdp11. However! The disks are hard formatted! You cannot use pdp11 disks for a pdp8. You'll have to find proper disks somewhere (DEC still sells them. :-) The -11 disks have 12 sectors/track, the -8 have 16 sectors/track. >RX01 questions: > > Does anyone have a maintenace manual for the RX01 drives > and controllers? I'll pay for copying and shipping. Might have somewhere. I'll have to dig through heaps of stuff though. Then shipping from Sweden to US costs a lot. Maybe someone a little closer... > What is the proper alignment for the Berg connectors > when hooking up the drives and the Omnibus controller? No idea. Trial and error? >RX02 question: > > Will the RX02 drives work with an RX01 disk controller? Again. No idea. Maybe, maybe not. I would like to hear that it work, since I have some RX8E controllers... Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus CS student at Uppsala University || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@minsk.docs.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by BUGS.SYSTEMSY.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Fri, 26 Feb 1993 11:04:13 -0500 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Fri, 26 Feb 1993 11:04:10 -0500 Received: from MCIGATEWAY.MCIMail.com (MCIMAIL.COM) by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) id AA14420; Fri, 26 Feb 93 10:35:35 EST Received: by MCIGATEWAY.MCIMail.com id ad07820; 26 Feb 93 15:30 GMT Received: from mcimail.com by MCIGATEWAY.MCIMail.com id ah07178; 26 Feb 93 15:13 GMT Date: Fri, 26 Feb 93 15:15 GMT From: PJHurst <0005460443@mcimail.com> To: pdp8-lovers Subject: jeff russ question Message-Id: <63930226151536/0005460443PK2EM@mcimail.com> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 93 15:15 GMT From: PJHurst <0005460443@mcimail.com> To: pdp8-lovers Subject: jeff russ question I sent the following directly to jeff: Date: Fri Feb 26, 1993 3:10 am GMT From: PJHurst / MCI ID: 546-0443 TO: Jeff Russ EMS: INTERNET / MCI ID: 376-5414 MBX: russ@silver.ucs.indiana.edu Subject: RE: RK05, RX01/Rx02 questions Message-Id: 00930226031000/0005460443PK2EM 1) There is no difference on rk05 drives, between pdp11 and pdp8 systems the difference lies in the number of sectors on the pack that is in the drive 12-sector for pdp11 and 16-sector for pdp8. In the case of rf05f (fixed) the packs can be changed by removing the front cover on the drive... 2) rx8e controler cards can run both rx01 or rx02 drives, on the pdp11 the difference in controler cards happened because of a speed problem in the different models of '11's and in actuallity any controler can run an rx01 or rx02 with appropriate software, if the processor can keep up 3) The dec part number for rx8/rx11 manual is ek-rx01-mm-002 which describes rx01 floppy interface and is applicable in most part for an rx02 on an pdp8 considering that the only difference is the drive and all else is the same... 4) The dec part number for the rx02 manual is ek-0rx02-tm-001 which describes rx02 drives and interfaces note that the card for an pdp8 is called an rx8e for single density, and rx28 for double density but is in fact the same M8357 omnibus interface card. 5) note that in addition to the rx8e/rx28 card, compatable interfaces exist for the vt78, decmate I and decmate II pdp8 compatable micro computer systems Hope that this was of some help Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by BUGS.SYSTEMSY.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Fri, 26 Feb 1993 21:59:37 -0500 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Fri, 26 Feb 1993 21:59:35 -0500 Received: from volitans.MorningStar.Com by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) id AA00804; Fri, 26 Feb 93 21:39:06 EST Received: from trigger.morningstar.com by volitans.MorningStar.Com (5.65a/92122901) id AA16326; Fri, 26 Feb 93 21:38:59 -0500 Received: by trigger.MorningStar.Com (5.65a/93011501) id AA17076; Fri, 26 Feb 93 21:39:04 -0500 Received: by n8emr.cmhnet.org (Ohio AMPR Gateway Smail3.1.16.1 #16.33) id ; Fri, 26 Feb 93 21:27 EST Received: from kumiss by jcnpc.cmhnet.org with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #3) id m0nSDXK-0002GSC; Fri, 26 Feb 93 17:28 EST Received: by kumiss.cmhnet.org (V1.16/Amiga) id AA006ot; Fri, 26 Feb 93 16:35:29 EDT Date: Fri, 26 Feb 93 16:35:29 EDT Message-Id: <9302262035.AA006os@kumiss.cmhnet.org> From: erd@kumiss.cmhnet.org (Ethan Dicks) To: bqt@minsk.docs.uu.se Cc: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: Re: RK05, RX01/Rx02 questions Date: Fri, 26 Feb 93 16:35:29 EDT From: erd@kumiss.cmhnet.org (Ethan Dicks) To: bqt@minsk.docs.uu.se Cc: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: Re: RK05, RX01/Rx02 questions :>This past week I picked up some RK05, RX01 and RX02 drives that :>were used on PDP11 systems. Are the drives compatible with :>PDP8 systems? : :Yes. : :>RK05 question: :> :> I remember hearing that for the RK05 there is a pcb trace :> under an IC that needs to be cut. Has anyone else heard :> this? : :Doubt it. The RK05 is the same for both pdp8 and pdp11. However! The :disks are hard formatted! You cannot use pdp11 disks for a pdp8. :You'll have to find proper disks somewhere (DEC still sells them. :-) :The -11 disks have 12 sectors/track, the -8 have 16 sectors/track. On that note, I have an RK05F 16 sector pack that I have never been able to read. The only working drives that I have are RK05J The pack came with an RK05F that has long since been dismantled. I was only 18 and had no experience with RK05 drives. The company that gave me the RK-11C, the RK05J and RK05F also had no experience with RK05s. I did not have any documentation on how to remove a platter from an -F. For reasons that I can't accurately remember, the heads didn't fully retract and I scagged a 12 sector pack and the drive trying to remove it :-( The 16 sector pack was safely put away at the time. To make a long story short, I have a RK05F 16 sector pack that I have no way to read. It has been in a shipping box for over 8 years, waiting for a home. I am willing to give this away to a good home as long as I can get a copy of the data on it. I'll even pay shipping. I do not have any RK05J/16 packs, sorry. -ethan