From 0005460443@mcimail.com Wed May 5 15:22:22 1993 Return-Path: <0005460443@mcimail.com> Received: from cunixf.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (5.59/FCB/jba) id AA25573; Wed, 5 May 93 15:22:21 EDT Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (5.59/FCB/jba) id AA25446; Wed, 5 May 93 15:21:43 EDT Received: from MCIGATEWAY.MCIMail.com by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) for lasner@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu id AA08288; Wed, 5 May 93 14:46:24 EDT Received: from mcimail.com by MCIGATEWAY.MCIMail.com id bt07061; 5 May 93 18:33 GMT Date: Wed, 5 May 93 18:05 GMT From: PJHurst <0005460443@mcimail.com> To: pdp8-lovers Subject: test msg Message-Id: <91930505180519/0005460443PK3EM@mcimail.com> Is this mail group still with us??? Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by CASPER.NA.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Wed, 5 May 1993 16:01:31 -0400 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Wed, 5 May 1993 16:01:26 -0400 Received: from sunic.sunet.se by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) for narem@cs.yale.edu id AA09190; Wed, 5 May 93 15:16:12 EDT Received: from Bern.DoCS.UU.SE by sunic.sunet.se (5.65c8-/1.28) id AA17281; Wed, 5 May 1993 21:15:54 +0200 Received: by Bern.DoCS.UU.SE (Sun-4/75, SunOS 4.1.1) with sendmail 5.61-bind 1.5+ida/ICU/DoCS id AA26033; Wed, 5 May 93 21:15:52 +0200 From: Johnny Billquist Date: Wed, 5 May 93 21:15:50 MET DST Reply-To: bqt@minsk.docs.uu.se To: PJHurst <0005460443@mcimail.com> Cc: pdp8-lovers Subject: Re: test msg In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 5 May 93 18:05 GMT Message-Id: From: Johnny Billquist Date: Wed, 5 May 93 21:15:50 MET DST Reply-To: bqt@minsk.docs.uu.se To: PJHurst <0005460443@mcimail.com> Cc: pdp8-lovers Subject: Re: test msg In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 5 May 93 18:05 GMT >Is this mail group still with us??? Yep. Not much happening though. I still use my pdp8/a every day, but not much hacking right bow, busy with a pdp-11/70 instead. Is there anybody with a FPP8A to spare, which I could buy/trade/recieve? Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus CS student at Uppsala University || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@minsk.docs.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by CASPER.NA.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Wed, 5 May 1993 21:38:22 -0400 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Wed, 5 May 1993 21:38:03 -0400 Received: from sunic.sunet.se by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) for narem@cs.yale.edu id AA17596; Wed, 5 May 93 20:59:37 EDT Received: from Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE by sunic.sunet.se (5.65c8-/1.28) id AA04911; Thu, 6 May 1993 02:59:36 +0200 Received: by Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE (Sun-4/630, SunOS 4.1.2) with sendmail 5.61-bind 1.5+ida/ICU/DoCS id AA18711; Thu, 6 May 93 02:59:34 +0200 From: Johnny Billquist Date: Thu, 6 May 93 2:59:32 MET DST Reply-To: bqt@minsk.docs.uu.se To: rmsmith@opus.starlab.csc.com (Robert Smith) Cc: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: Re: reply - kl8-ja In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 5 May 93 20:16:06 EDT Message-Id: From: Johnny Billquist Date: Thu, 6 May 93 2:59:32 MET DST Reply-To: bqt@minsk.docs.uu.se To: rmsmith@opus.starlab.csc.com (Robert Smith) Cc: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: Re: reply - kl8-ja In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 5 May 93 20:16:06 EDT >I have seen it, remember when it was being designed I think - >Kirk jump in anytime - I don't want to blame Larry for >designing it, I don't remember if it was Moose Regan or >larry... >worked real well with the KL8M - I did that.. >bob Ummm, I think you're mixing things up. The KL8-JA is a one-line interface, which was a replacement for the KL8-E. The KL8-A was a four-line unit. Kindof the DZ-11, but for the pdp8. It consisted of one Hex omnibus board, and a distribution panel for 8 terminal lines (2 KL8A). It was not possible to connect it with a KL8M. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus CS student at Uppsala University || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@minsk.docs.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by CASPER.NA.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Wed, 5 May 1993 22:38:00 -0400 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Wed, 5 May 1993 22:37:57 -0400 Received: from sunic.sunet.se by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) for narem@cs.yale.edu id AA18662; Wed, 5 May 93 22:00:05 EDT Received: from Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE by sunic.sunet.se (5.65c8-/1.28) id AA07175; Thu, 6 May 1993 04:00:02 +0200 Received: by Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE (Sun-4/630, SunOS 4.1.2) with sendmail 5.61-bind 1.5+ida/ICU/DoCS id AA19247; Thu, 6 May 93 04:00:00 +0200 From: Johnny Billquist Date: Thu, 6 May 93 3:59:58 MET DST Reply-To: bqt@minsk.docs.uu.se To: rmsmith@opus.starlab.csc.com (Robert Smith) Cc: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: Re: reply - kl8-ja In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 5 May 93 21:30:48 EDT Message-Id: From: Johnny Billquist Date: Thu, 6 May 93 3:59:58 MET DST Reply-To: bqt@minsk.docs.uu.se To: rmsmith@opus.starlab.csc.com (Robert Smith) Cc: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: Re: reply - kl8-ja In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 5 May 93 21:30:48 EDT >Johnny >yep you are rite!!! >I stand or sit corrected...just remembered a project in the >lab in the mill that had multi uarts on an omnibus board. >bob Thanks. :-) Anyway, I have an old catalogue, where they show pictures of this beast, and it is also mentioned in one version of the pdp8/a handbook. It appears it used the possibility to vector interrupts as well. (Well, sort of). If you got an interrupt, and it was the KL8A, you just executed an instruction, and it would immediately jump to the address you had loaded into the device, and the low address lines was used for vectoring between different types of interrupts. The instruction was a no-op if the KL8A didn't want an interrupt handled. It looks like a very nice piece of equipment, and I would like to lay my hands on one. Another piece I'd like to get is a KT8A. Anybody got one of those? Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus CS student at Uppsala University || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@minsk.docs.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by CASPER.NA.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Mon, 10 May 1993 23:59:00 -0400 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Mon, 10 May 1993 23:58:58 -0400 Received: from silver.ucs.indiana.edu by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) for narem@cs.yale.edu id AA07418; Mon, 10 May 93 23:35:00 EDT Message-Id: <9305110335.AA07418@life.ai.mit.edu> Received: by silver.ucs.indiana.edu (5.65c+/10jsm) id AA01852; Mon, 10 May 1993 22:34:59 -0500 Date: Mon, 10 May 1993 22:34:59 -0500 From: Jeff Russ To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: VT100/M8655 Console Device Problem Date: Mon, 10 May 1993 22:34:59 -0500 From: Jeff Russ To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: VT100/M8655 Console Device Problem I've just pieced together a PDP8/F with a TD8E/TU56 running OS/8. For a console I'm using an M8655 with a VT100. I've got a problem with running TDCOPY and TDFRMT. According to the listing of the TD8E formatter the code expects the characters from the console to have the parity bit set. The problem is, if I enter a "1" on the VT100 keyboard the PDP8 gets an octal 61, but the code is expecting to get octal 261. Do other DEC programs have this problem? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jeff Russ russ@silver.ucs.indiana.edu University Computing Services PHONE: (812) 855-2733 Indiana University, Bloomington, IN I want to buy old PDP[4-9] systems. Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by CASPER.NA.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Tue, 11 May 1993 00:12:58 -0400 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Tue, 11 May 1993 00:12:55 -0400 Received: from silver.ucs.indiana.edu by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) for narem@cs.yale.edu id AA07893; Mon, 10 May 93 23:48:17 EDT Message-Id: <9305110348.AA07893@life.ai.mit.edu> Received: by silver.ucs.indiana.edu (5.65c+/10jsm) id AA02283; Mon, 10 May 1993 22:48:17 -0500 Date: Mon, 10 May 1993 22:48:17 -0500 From: Jeff Russ To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: DEC Tape Library System for TD8E systems? Date: Mon, 10 May 1993 22:48:17 -0500 From: Jeff Russ To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: DEC Tape Library System for TD8E systems? Does a version of the DEC Tape Library System exist for TD8E systems? I'd love to be able to load diagnostics from DEC Tape on a 4K PDP8/F system instead of from a paper tape reader or without having to have 12K of core in the system to run OS/8. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jeff Russ russ@silver.ucs.indiana.edu University Computing Services PHONE: (812) 855-2733 Indiana University, Bloomington, IN I want to buy old PDP[4-9] systems. Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by CASPER.NA.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Tue, 11 May 1993 01:02:13 -0400 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Tue, 11 May 1993 01:02:07 -0400 Received: from TYO.gate.nec.co.jp by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) for narem@cs.yale.edu id AA08783; Tue, 11 May 93 00:26:38 EDT Received: from mailsv.nec.co.jp (mailsv) by TYO.gate.nec.co.jp (5.65c/6.4J.6-TYO_gate) id AA20619; Tue, 11 May 1993 13:26:35 +0900 Received: from nsis.cl.nec.co.jp by mailsv.nec.co.jp (5.65c/6.4JAIN) id AA04993; Tue, 11 May 1993 13:26:35 +0900 Received: from silk1.nsis.cl.nec.co.jp by nsis.cl.nec.co.jp (5.65c/6.4JAIN-NSIS-930405.1) id AA06822; Tue, 11 May 1993 13:26:32 +0900 Received: by silk1.nsis.cl.nec.co.jp (4.1/6.4J.6-nsis-ksp-4.45) id AA25958; Tue, 11 May 93 13:26:30 JST Date: Tue, 11 May 93 13:26:30 JST From: nick@nsis.cl.nec.co.jp (Gavin Thomas Nicol) Return-Path: Message-Id: <9305110426.AA25958@silk1.nsis.cl.nec.co.jp> To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: Build your own? Date: Tue, 11 May 93 13:26:30 JST From: nick@nsis.cl.nec.co.jp (Gavin Thomas Nicol) Return-Path: To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: Build your own? Has anyone ever built their own PDP8? Could anyone give me a rough idea of transistor count etc? I would love to get hold of one, but unfortunately, they seem to be very few and far between in Japan, and shipping from the USA would probably not be feasible. (Actually, I'd like to build a computer (I was tossing around a electro-mechanical idea... still am), and a PDP8 seems like a neat "long term" project. Of course, if someone has one in Japan, I'd love to have it!) Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by CASPER.NA.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Tue, 11 May 1993 07:06:43 -0400 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Tue, 11 May 1993 07:06:37 -0400 Received: from sunic.sunet.se by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) for narem@cs.yale.edu id AA13303; Tue, 11 May 93 06:40:17 EDT Received: from Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE by sunic.sunet.se (5.65c8-/1.28) id AA15517; Tue, 11 May 1993 12:40:08 +0200 Received: by Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE (Sun-4/630, SunOS 4.1.2) with sendmail 5.61-bind 1.5+ida/ICU/DoCS id AA00312; Tue, 11 May 93 12:40:06 +0200 From: Johnny Billquist Date: Tue, 11 May 93 12:40:05 MET DST Reply-To: bqt@minsk.docs.uu.se To: Jeff Russ Cc: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: Re: VT100/M8655 Console Device Problem In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 10 May 1993 22:34:59 -0500 Message-Id: From: Johnny Billquist Date: Tue, 11 May 93 12:40:05 MET DST Reply-To: bqt@minsk.docs.uu.se To: Jeff Russ Cc: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: Re: VT100/M8655 Console Device Problem In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 10 May 1993 22:34:59 -0500 >I've just pieced together a PDP8/F with a TD8E/TU56 running OS/8. For >a console I'm using an M8655 with a VT100. I've got a problem with >running TDCOPY and TDFRMT. According to the listing of the TD8E formatter >the code expects the characters from the console to have the parity bit >set. The problem is, if I enter a "1" on the VT100 keyboard the PDP8 gets an >octal 61, but the code is expecting to get octal 261. Do other DEC >programs have this problem? Sigh. That is an obnoxious problem. Most programs on OS/8 expects the parity bit to be set. Some mask it away, thank god. There are three solutions to this. 1. Patch the program 2. Patch the M8655 3. Fix the terminal (is it only the VT102 which can force mark parity?) Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus CS student at Uppsala University || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@minsk.docs.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by CASPER.NA.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Tue, 11 May 1993 09:53:20 -0400 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Tue, 11 May 1993 09:53:16 -0400 Received: from linc.cis.upenn.edu by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) for narem@cs.yale.edu id AA15251; Tue, 11 May 93 09:18:09 EDT Received: from KAPPA.CIS.UPENN.EDU by linc.cis.upenn.edu id AA05537; Tue, 11 May 93 09:18:06 -0400 Return-Path: Received: by kappa.cis.upenn.edu id AA07023; Tue, 11 May 93 09:18:05 EDT Date: Tue, 11 May 93 09:18:05 EDT From: qobi@unagi.cis.upenn.edu Posted-Date: Tue, 11 May 93 09:18:05 EDT Message-Id: <9305111318.AA07023@kappa.cis.upenn.edu> To: nick@nsis.cl.nec.co.jp Cc: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu In-Reply-To: Gavin Thomas Nicol's message of Tue, 11 May 93 13:26:30 JST <9305110426.AA25958@silk1.nsis.cl.nec.co.jp> Subject: Build your own? Reply-To: Qobi@central.cis.upenn.edu Return-Path: Date: Tue, 11 May 93 09:18:05 EDT From: qobi@unagi.cis.upenn.edu Posted-Date: Tue, 11 May 93 09:18:05 EDT To: nick@nsis.cl.nec.co.jp Cc: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu In-Reply-To: Gavin Thomas Nicol's message of Tue, 11 May 93 13:26:30 JST <9305110426.AA25958@silk1.nsis.cl.nec.co.jp> Subject: Build your own? Reply-To: Qobi@central.cis.upenn.edu About ten years ago, I wrote a silicon compiler, a program which took a behavioral description of a digital system as input (in a language similar to ISPS) and produced as output, the layout for an nMOS integrated circuit. One of the sample designs we would run through the compiler was a PDP8. It was fairly bare-bones, no console, no EAE, no extended memory, no peripherals. I don't remember exactly, but the design generated used a few thousand transistors. Our compiler wasn't particularly efficient so I bet a smaller design could be generated. I might be able to dig up our input description of the PDP8 if you want, though due to bit rot, our compiler no longer runs so I couldn't generate the layout for you. I remember hearing of someone who built a homebrew PDP8 from about 100 TTL/MSI components. You could probably build one using fewer components with PALs. Jeff Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by CASPER.NA.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Tue, 11 May 1993 11:28:21 -0400 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Tue, 11 May 1993 11:28:19 -0400 Received: from MCIGATEWAY.MCIMail.com by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) for narem@cs.yale.edu id AA17490; Tue, 11 May 93 10:55:28 EDT Received: from mcimail.com by MCIGATEWAY.MCIMail.com id aj17883; 11 May 93 14:47 GMT Date: Tue, 11 May 93 14:26 GMT From: PJHurst <0005460443@mcimail.com> To: pdp8-lovers Subject: VT100 Message-Id: <21930511142612/0005460443PK1EM@mcimail.com> Date: Tue, 11 May 93 14:26 GMT From: PJHurst <0005460443@mcimail.com> To: pdp8-lovers Subject: VT100 Jeff, Set the VT100 to mark parity, I have one on my 8/M and have no problem with it... Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by CASPER.NA.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Tue, 11 May 1993 12:02:45 -0400 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Tue, 11 May 1993 12:02:43 -0400 Received: from cunixb.cc.columbia.edu by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) for narem@cs.yale.edu id AA17955; Tue, 11 May 93 11:14:34 EDT Received: by cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (5.59/FCB/jba) id AA28922; Tue, 11 May 93 11:14:17 EDT Date: Tue, 11 May 93 11:14:14 EDT From: Seth 'the Lesser' To: Qobi@central.cis.upenn.edu Cc: nick@nsis.cl.nec.co.jp, pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: Re: Build your own? In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 11 May 93 09:18:05 EDT Message-Id: Date: Tue, 11 May 93 11:14:14 EDT From: Seth 'the Lesser' To: Qobi@central.cis.upenn.edu Cc: nick@nsis.cl.nec.co.jp, pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: Re: Build your own? In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 11 May 93 09:18:05 EDT I have schematics for the PDP-8/A lying around here somewhere. I'd say an MSI part count in the 100's is about right. And yes, PALs would clean it up considerably--there are five or six different state-machines implemented with TTL. Seth L. Blumberg \ "The whole thing was an accident. No saboteur slb22@columbia.edu (play) \ could have been so wildly optimistic as to think sethb@ctr.columbia.edu (work) \ he could destroy an airplane this way." > No one I know shares my opinions, least of all Columbia University. < Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by CASPER.NA.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Tue, 11 May 1993 12:21:03 -0400 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Tue, 11 May 1993 12:20:54 -0400 Received: from sunic.sunet.se by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) for narem@cs.yale.edu id AA18403; Tue, 11 May 93 11:28:14 EDT Received: from Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE by sunic.sunet.se (5.65c8-/1.28) id AA09394; Tue, 11 May 1993 17:28:09 +0200 Received: by Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE (Sun-4/630, SunOS 4.1.2) with sendmail 5.61-bind 1.5+ida/ICU/DoCS id AA12151; Tue, 11 May 93 17:28:06 +0200 From: Johnny Billquist Date: Tue, 11 May 93 17:28:05 MET DST Reply-To: bqt@minsk.docs.uu.se To: Seth 'the Lesser' Cc: Qobi@central.cis.upenn.edu, nick@nsis.cl.nec.co.jp, pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: Re: Build your own? In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 11 May 93 11:14:14 EDT Message-Id: From: Johnny Billquist Date: Tue, 11 May 93 17:28:05 MET DST Reply-To: bqt@minsk.docs.uu.se To: Seth 'the Lesser' Cc: Qobi@central.cis.upenn.edu, nick@nsis.cl.nec.co.jp, pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: Re: Build your own? In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 11 May 93 11:14:14 EDT >I have schematics for the PDP-8/A lying around here somewhere. I'd say an >MSI part count in the 100's is about right. And yes, PALs would clean it >up considerably--there are five or six different state-machines >implemented with TTL. But the 8/A is microcoded. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus CS student at Uppsala University || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@minsk.docs.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by CASPER.NA.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Tue, 11 May 1993 14:43:21 -0400 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Tue, 11 May 1993 14:43:01 -0400 Received: from cunixb.cc.columbia.edu by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) for narem@cs.yale.edu id AA22415; Tue, 11 May 93 13:53:38 EDT Received: by cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (5.59/FCB/jba) id AA14059; Tue, 11 May 93 13:49:41 EDT Date: Tue, 11 May 93 13:49:39 EDT From: Seth 'the Lesser' To: bqt@minsk.docs.uu.se Cc: Qobi@central.cis.upenn.edu, nick@nsis.cl.nec.co.jp, pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: Re: Build your own? In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 11 May 93 17:28:05 MET DST Message-Id: Date: Tue, 11 May 93 13:49:39 EDT From: Seth 'the Lesser' To: bqt@minsk.docs.uu.se Cc: Qobi@central.cis.upenn.edu, nick@nsis.cl.nec.co.jp, pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: Re: Build your own? In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 11 May 93 17:28:05 MET DST Yes, it is...in a sense.... A *lot* of the discrete logic in earlier CPUs' instruction decoders was replaced by ROMs in the 8/A. A lot of MSI shifters were still used for state machines, though, especially in the timing generator. I was estimating how much logic it would take to do it all without ROMs. If anyone wants the 8/A print set, they can send me money and I'll happily copy it for them. Seth L. Blumberg \ "The whole thing was an accident. No saboteur slb22@columbia.edu (play) \ could have been so wildly optimistic as to think sethb@ctr.columbia.edu (work) \ he could destroy an airplane this way." > No one I know shares my opinions, least of all Columbia University. < Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by CASPER.NA.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Tue, 11 May 1993 15:33:24 -0400 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Tue, 11 May 1993 15:33:16 -0400 Received: from media.mit.edu (media-lab.media.mit.edu) by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) for narem@cs.yale.edu id AA24312; Tue, 11 May 93 14:50:07 EDT Received: by media.mit.edu (5.57/DA1.0.4.amt) id AA16211; Tue, 11 May 93 14:50:03 -0400 Date: Tue, 11 May 93 14:50:03 -0400 From: Leonard N. Foner Message-Id: <9305111850.AA16211@media.mit.edu> To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: Re: Build your own? Cc: foner@media.mit.edu Date: Tue, 11 May 93 14:50:03 -0400 From: Leonard N. Foner To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: Re: Build your own? Cc: foner@media.mit.edu Wasn't the Harris 6100 (or somesuch) a complete PDP8 on a chip? Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by CASPER.NA.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Tue, 11 May 1993 16:14:14 -0400 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Tue, 11 May 1993 16:14:12 -0400 Received: from iastate.edu (homer.ecss.iastate.edu) by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) for narem@cs.yale.edu id AA25721; Tue, 11 May 93 15:30:34 EDT Received: by iastate.edu with sendmail-5.57/4.7 id ; Tue, 11 May 93 14:30:26 -0500 Message-Id: <9305111930.AA14014@iastate.edu> To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: PDP-8/L CPU for sale Date: Tue, 11 May 93 14:30:23 CDT From: "mike begley" To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: PDP-8/L CPU for sale Date: Tue, 11 May 93 14:30:23 CDT From: "mike begley" I got a pdp-8/L cpu here that my wife would like to see gone. It seems to work, and is in good condition (except a couple of the front panel switches don't stay on. U pick up or pay for shipping. -- Michael Begley Ask me how "the man and the woman were spam@iastate.edu Iowa State University both naked, and they were (515) 233-6210 is censoring my usenet access not ashamed..." Gen:2.25 Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by CASPER.NA.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Tue, 11 May 1993 17:34:46 -0400 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Tue, 11 May 1993 17:34:16 -0400 Received: from SSD.intel.com by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) for narem@cs.yale.edu id AA23796; Tue, 11 May 93 14:35:21 EDT Received: from alaska.ssd.intel.com by SSD.intel.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA26134; Tue, 11 May 93 11:34:37 PDT Message-Id: <9305111834.AA26134@SSD.intel.com> To: Seth 'the Lesser' Cc: Qobi@central.cis.upenn.edu, nick@nsis.cl.nec.co.jp, pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu, prp@ssd.intel.com Subject: Re: Build your own? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 11 May 93 11:14:14 EDT." Date: Tue, 11 May 93 11:34:32 -0700 From: prp@ssd.intel.com To: Seth 'the Lesser' Cc: Qobi@central.cis.upenn.edu, nick@nsis.cl.nec.co.jp, pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu, prp@ssd.intel.com Subject: Re: Build your own? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 11 May 93 11:14:14 EDT." Date: Tue, 11 May 93 11:34:32 -0700 From: prp@ssd.intel.com Hi Seth, You just admitted that you have 8/a drawings. I have 8/a's and no drawings. Any chance you could dig them up and make me a copy? I am happy to pay copying costs and/or trade copies of stuff I have you might want. Paul Pierce Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by CASPER.NA.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Tue, 11 May 1993 19:14:57 -0400 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Tue, 11 May 1993 19:14:48 -0400 Received: from Shiva.COM by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) for narem@cs.yale.edu id AA00624; Tue, 11 May 93 18:11:59 EDT Received: by Shiva.COM (1.34b) Tue, 11 May 93 18:11:50 EDT Date: Tue, 11 May 93 18:11:50 EDT From: Phil Budne Message-Id: <9305112211.AA19130@Shiva.COM> To: bqt@minsk.docs.uu.se, russ@silver.ucs.indiana.edu Subject: Re: VT100/M8655 Console Device Problem Cc: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Date: Tue, 11 May 93 18:11:50 EDT From: Phil Budne To: bqt@minsk.docs.uu.se, russ@silver.ucs.indiana.edu Subject: Re: VT100/M8655 Console Device Problem Cc: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu And I was wondering why I had trouble dialing into a Sun and running gdb on my VT52!! Did all old DEC terminals (back when you just plugged things in and they worked with no setup) send mark parity? -p Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by CASPER.NA.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Tue, 11 May 1993 20:06:16 -0400 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Tue, 11 May 1993 20:06:11 -0400 Received: from sunic.sunet.se by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) for narem@cs.yale.edu id AA02308; Tue, 11 May 93 19:31:13 EDT Received: from Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE by sunic.sunet.se (5.65c8-/1.28) id AA07455; Wed, 12 May 1993 01:31:09 +0200 Received: by Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE (Sun-4/630, SunOS 4.1.2) with sendmail 5.61-bind 1.5+ida/ICU/DoCS id AA21780; Wed, 12 May 93 01:31:08 +0200 From: Johnny Billquist Date: Wed, 12 May 93 1:31:06 MET DST Reply-To: bqt@minsk.docs.uu.se To: Leonard N. Foner Cc: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu, foner@media.mit.edu Subject: Re: Build your own? In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 11 May 93 14:50:03 -0400 Message-Id: From: Johnny Billquist Date: Wed, 12 May 93 1:31:06 MET DST Reply-To: bqt@minsk.docs.uu.se To: Leonard N. Foner Cc: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu, foner@media.mit.edu Subject: Re: Build your own? In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 11 May 93 14:50:03 -0400 >Wasn't the Harris 6100 (or somesuch) a complete PDP8 on a chip? > Yes. Both the 6100 and the 6120. The 6120 had some more stuff than the 6100. (I think Intersil made the as well...) Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus CS student at Uppsala University || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@minsk.docs.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by CASPER.NA.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Tue, 11 May 1993 20:18:56 -0400 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Tue, 11 May 1993 20:18:47 -0400 Received: from TYO.gate.nec.co.jp by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) for narem@cs.yale.edu id AA02272; Tue, 11 May 93 19:28:56 EDT Received: from mailsv.nec.co.jp (mailsv) by TYO.gate.nec.co.jp (5.65c/6.4J.6-TYO_gate) id AA15880; Wed, 12 May 1993 08:28:52 +0900 Received: from nsis.cl.nec.co.jp by mailsv.nec.co.jp (5.65c/6.4JAIN) id AA28579; Wed, 12 May 1993 08:28:54 +0900 Received: from silk1.nsis.cl.nec.co.jp by nsis.cl.nec.co.jp (5.65c/6.4JAIN-NSIS-930405.1) id AA08326; Wed, 12 May 1993 08:28:50 +0900 Received: by silk1.nsis.cl.nec.co.jp (4.1/6.4J.6-nsis-ksp-4.45) id AA11576; Wed, 12 May 93 08:28:49 JST Date: Wed, 12 May 93 08:28:49 JST From: nick@nsis.cl.nec.co.jp (Gavin Thomas Nicol) Return-Path: Message-Id: <9305112328.AA11576@silk1.nsis.cl.nec.co.jp> To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: Re: Build your own? Date: Wed, 12 May 93 08:28:49 JST From: nick@nsis.cl.nec.co.jp (Gavin Thomas Nicol) Return-Path: To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: Re: Build your own? Hmm, I seem to have generated a few responses. It seems that shipping may not be as much of a problem as I thought I'll have to look into it a bit more before I start building my own. If I built my own, I'd like to do it all without using chips, which may sound masochistic, but... anyway, does anyone have schematics for any of the older PDP8's? Alternatively: Stanley Chow writes: >I happen to have several boxes of PDP8 pieces that I bought at a swap >meet. I only want several things out of that pile for my running PDP8 >so I would be happy to sell some. As for shipping, I am about to transfer >to our China location, so it should be better than shipping from North >America (I have no idea of shipping costs from China to Japan). Would there be enough to get a running machine? I might be interested in this offer. Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by CASPER.NA.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Tue, 11 May 1993 20:20:12 -0400 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Tue, 11 May 1993 20:20:06 -0400 Received: from sunic.sunet.se by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) for narem@cs.yale.edu id AA02384; Tue, 11 May 93 19:33:42 EDT Received: from Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE by sunic.sunet.se (5.65c8-/1.28) id AA07621; Wed, 12 May 1993 01:33:38 +0200 Received: by Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE (Sun-4/630, SunOS 4.1.2) with sendmail 5.61-bind 1.5+ida/ICU/DoCS id AA21828; Wed, 12 May 93 01:33:37 +0200 From: Johnny Billquist Date: Wed, 12 May 93 1:33:35 MET DST Reply-To: bqt@minsk.docs.uu.se To: Phil Budne Cc: russ@silver.ucs.indiana.edu, pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: Re: VT100/M8655 Console Device Problem In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 11 May 93 18:11:50 EDT Message-Id: From: Johnny Billquist Date: Wed, 12 May 93 1:33:35 MET DST Reply-To: bqt@minsk.docs.uu.se To: Phil Budne Cc: russ@silver.ucs.indiana.edu, pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: Re: VT100/M8655 Console Device Problem In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 11 May 93 18:11:50 EDT >And I was wondering why I had trouble dialing into a Sun and running >gdb on my VT52!! Did all old DEC terminals (back when you just plugged >things in and they worked with no setup) send mark parity? :-) It appears that DEC always used mark parity on old stuff, yes. Don't remember why, but I have seen some explanation for this. Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus CS student at Uppsala University || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@minsk.docs.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by CASPER.NA.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Tue, 11 May 1993 22:56:23 -0400 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Tue, 11 May 1993 22:55:47 -0400 Received: from ns-mx.uiowa.edu by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) for narem@cs.yale.edu id AA05495; Tue, 11 May 93 22:15:57 EDT Received: from pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu by ns-mx.uiowa.edu (5.64.jnf/920408) on Tue, 11 May 93 21:15:51 -0500 id AA13800 with SMTP Received: by pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (5.59/890218) on Tue, 11 May 93 21:14:56 CDT id AA10187 Date: Tue, 11 May 93 21:14:56 CDT From: Douglas W. Jones Message-Id: <9305120214.AA10187@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu> To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: build your own PDP-8 Date: Tue, 11 May 93 21:14:56 CDT From: Douglas W. Jones To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: build your own PDP-8 If you're serious about building a PDP-8 from discrete transistors, I do have the maintenance manuals for the original PDP-8, along with the 1965 flip-chip handbook. This doesn't provide complete schematics at the discrete component level, but it provides sufficient information that you could infer the component level structure and infer the backplane wiring. Of course, some parts would be hard to find, particularly the 4k by 12 bit core stack. Quite frankly, I'd recommend either getting a real vintage PDP-8 or building one from IC's or a silicon compiler. And, of course, if Stanley Chou has parts and is willing to haul them across the Pacific, take advantage of them. But! What parts does he have? Doug Jones jones@cs.uiowa.edu Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by CASPER.NA.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Wed, 12 May 1993 00:08:47 -0400 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Wed, 12 May 1993 00:08:37 -0400 Received: from TYO.gate.nec.co.jp by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) for narem@cs.yale.edu id AA07253; Tue, 11 May 93 23:27:28 EDT Received: from mailsv.nec.co.jp (mailsv) by TYO.gate.nec.co.jp (5.65c/6.4J.6-TYO_gate) id AA00787; Wed, 12 May 1993 12:27:23 +0900 Received: from nsis.cl.nec.co.jp by mailsv.nec.co.jp (5.65c/6.4JAIN) id AA08220; Wed, 12 May 1993 12:27:25 +0900 Received: from silk1.nsis.cl.nec.co.jp by nsis.cl.nec.co.jp (5.65c/6.4JAIN-NSIS-930405.1) id AA19282; Wed, 12 May 1993 12:27:21 +0900 Received: by silk1.nsis.cl.nec.co.jp (4.1/6.4J.6-nsis-ksp-4.45) id AA17431; Wed, 12 May 93 12:27:18 JST Date: Wed, 12 May 93 12:27:18 JST From: nick@nsis.cl.nec.co.jp (Gavin Thomas Nicol) Return-Path: Message-Id: <9305120327.AA17431@silk1.nsis.cl.nec.co.jp> To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: build you own PDP-8 Date: Wed, 12 May 93 12:27:18 JST From: nick@nsis.cl.nec.co.jp (Gavin Thomas Nicol) Return-Path: To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: build you own PDP-8 >If you're serious about building a PDP-8 from discrete transistors, I do >have the maintenance manuals for the original PDP-8, along with the 1965 >flip-chip handbook. This doesn't provide complete schematics at the >discrete component level, but it provides sufficient information that you >could infer the component level structure and infer the backplane wiring. >Of course, some parts would be hard to find, particularly the 4k by 12 bit >core stack. Quite frankly, I'd recommend either getting a real vintage >PDP-8 or building one from IC's or a silicon compiler. >And, of course, if Stanley Chou has parts and is willing to haul them >across the Pacific, take advantage of them. But! What parts does he >have? Yes, I think I'll try to get a real vintage PDP-8. I'll just have to convince my wife that it's worth shipping+cost... and *that* will be the hard part. I really want to build by own computer from discrete parts though... I suppose working with a PDP-8 will give me a lot of useful ideas/knowledge about the design of computers, so it may be a good first step. Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by CASPER.NA.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Wed, 12 May 1993 01:45:27 -0400 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Wed, 12 May 1993 01:45:20 -0400 Received: from uucp-gw-2.pa.dec.com by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) for narem@cs.yale.edu id AA09700; Wed, 12 May 93 01:20:03 EDT Received: by uucp-gw-2.pa.dec.com; id AA05602; Tue, 11 May 93 19:26:02 -0700 Received: by llustig.palo-alto.ca.us (1.65/waf) via UUCP; Tue, 11 May 93 19:06:01 PDT for pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: Re: DEC Tape Library System for TD8E systems? From: david@llustig.palo-alto.ca.us (David Schachter) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 11 May 93 19:04:39 PDT Organization: Greenwire Consulting, Palo Alto, CA, USA To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: Re: DEC Tape Library System for TD8E systems? From: david@llustig.palo-alto.ca.us (David Schachter) Date: Tue, 11 May 93 19:04:39 PDT Organization: Greenwire Consulting, Palo Alto, CA, USA I don't know what I'm talking about... but that won't stop me, this being email. We ran OS/8 with TD8E/TU56 combos just fine on 4K core pdp8/m systems. We also had one system with dual tape drives and 8K of core. I hope this information is of some help to you. (I haven't touched my pdp8/m in a long, long time.) _____________________________________________________________________________ David Schachter david@llustig.palo-alto.ca.us 801 Middlefield Road, #8 CompuServe: 70714,3017 Palo Alto, CA 94301-2916 After 10 am, voice: +1 415 328 7425 USA fax: +1 415 328 7154 Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by CASPER.NA.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Wed, 12 May 1993 06:24:08 -0400 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Wed, 12 May 1993 06:23:57 -0400 Received: from moomin.ai.mit.edu by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) for narem@cs.yale.edu id AA13625; Wed, 12 May 93 06:02:02 EDT Return-Path: Received: by moomin.ai.mit.edu (3.1.28.1) id ; Wed, 12 May 93 06:03 EDT Message-Id: Date: Wed, 12 May 93 06:03 EDT From: Jan Brittenson To: bqt@minsk.docs.uu.se Cc: foner@media.mit.edu, pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu, foner@media.mit.edu In-Reply-To: Johnny Billquist's message of Wed, 12 May 93 1:31:06 MET DST Subject: Build your own? Reply-To: bson@ai.mit.edu Organization: Kra%s%ch and burn! Return-Path: Date: Wed, 12 May 93 06:03 EDT From: Jan Brittenson To: bqt@minsk.docs.uu.se Cc: foner@media.mit.edu, pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu, foner@media.mit.edu In-Reply-To: Johnny Billquist's message of Wed, 12 May 93 1:31:06 MET DST Subject: Build your own? Reply-To: bson@ai.mit.edu Organization: Kra%s%ch and burn! > From: Johnny Billquist > Date: Wed, 12 May 93 1:31:06 MET DST >> Wasn't the Harris 6100 (or somesuch) a complete PDP8 on a chip? > Yes. Both the 6100 and the 6120. The 6120 had some more stuff than the > 6100. I used to have an Intersil Data Book with these parts in it. But they were discontinued years before I even started thinking about building a micro-8. Of course, I was mostly interested in using the (then) available 10 and 20MB MFM 5.25" drives. I remember I was going to use the same NS controller with built-in DMA and the same data sep/PLL chip as I was for another project. The Intersil part seemed software compatible as did the peripheral chips. A small system would have been trivial to set up. Except for a disk controller, which actually required reading the application notes in NS' Data Book. Harris, eh? Gee, wonder what they were going use pdp-8s for. Guess these systems wouldn't be needing disk controllers where they were going! -- Jan Brittenson bson@ai.mit.edu Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by CASPER.NA.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Wed, 12 May 1993 11:10:25 -0400 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Wed, 12 May 1993 11:10:23 -0400 Received: from ucsd.edu by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) for narem@cs.yale.edu id AA18469; Wed, 12 May 93 10:43:45 EDT Received: from whelk.ucsd.edu by ucsd.edu; id AA00728 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun via SMTP Wed, 12 May 93 07:43:43 -0700 for pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Received: by whelk.UCSD.EDU (4.1/UCSDPSEUDO.3) id AA05983 for pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu; Wed, 12 May 93 07:43:47 PDT Date: Wed, 12 May 93 07:43:47 PDT From: vince@mpl.ucsd.edu (Vince Pavlicek) Message-Id: <9305121443.AA05983@whelk.UCSD.EDU> To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: Re: Build your own? Date: Wed, 12 May 93 07:43:47 PDT From: vince@mpl.ucsd.edu (Vince Pavlicek) To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: Re: Build your own? ----- Begin Included Message ----- >From moomin!bson@ai.mit.edu Wed May 12 03:36:11 1993 > From: Johnny Billquist > Date: Wed, 12 May 93 1:31:06 MET DST >> Wasn't the Harris 6100 (or somesuch) a complete PDP8 on a chip? > Yes. Both the 6100 and the 6120. The 6120 had some more stuff than the > 6100. I used to have an Intersil Data Book with these parts in it. But they were discontinued years before I even started thinking about building a micro-8. ..... The Intersil part seemed software compatible as did the peripheral chips. A small system would have been trivial to set up. Except for a disk controller, which actually required reading the application notes in NS' Data Book. ----- End Included Message ----- Gawd, you mean some of these chips are valuable! I dragged out the old prototype for a low-power data acquisition system I built. The original prototype was a 6100 CPU with 6101 PIE, 6102 Mem Extension/DMA/Timer and two RCA 1855 hardware multipliers to get 12x12 products. Worked ok but was replaced by a 68000 when they came out. (I still have an 'X' version of a 68k). This became a PDP8 look-alike with the Intersil ROM (6312-001) that had a monitor allowing uploading etc. Don't smile, this was a big deal in the early 70's. 1k ROM, 4k RAM all on a 8x5 card that ran on milliamps! Guess I'll file it away with my Altair/Imsai stuff. ;-) 0 vince pavlicek O development engineer o vince@mpl.ucsd.edu | vpavlice@ucsd marine physical lab -- u.c. la jolla Just another beer brewing, bike riding, code hacking, real-time hardware guy. Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by CASPER.NA.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Wed, 12 May 1993 17:22:25 -0400 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Wed, 12 May 1993 17:22:18 -0400 Received: from CCA.CAMB.COM (camb.com) by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) for narem@cs.yale.edu id AA29124; Wed, 12 May 93 16:32:37 EDT Received: from vn-gateway by camb.com (PMDF V4.2-11 #4085) id <01GY3EU8HGDC94DNL9@camb.com>; Wed, 12 May 1993 16:31:59 EDT Received: by lmrc.com (DECUS UUCP /2.0/2.0/2.0/); Wed, 12 May 93 15:17:54 EST Date: Wed, 12 May 1993 15:17:54 -0500 (EST) From: Bob Hassinger Subject: Re: DECtape Library System for TD8E system To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Message-Id: <0096C66113B5B040.00006DAA@lmrc.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Vms-Mail-To: UUCP%"pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu" X-Vms-Mail-Cc: HASSINGER Date: Wed, 12 May 1993 15:17:54 -0500 (EST) From: Bob Hassinger Subject: Re: DECtape Library System for TD8E system To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Vms-Mail-To: UUCP%"pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu" X-Vms-Mail-Cc: HASSINGER Been having trouble trying to send this. Here goes try 3... Are you thinking of the old system that predated OS/8, PS/8, and the 4K Disk/DECtape Operating System? It was the first software I had to use with DECtape on my first 4K PDP-8/I circa 1968. It ran on the TC01 with TU55 and later it also worked with TC08 and TU56. I believe it was limited to a one page device driver (at 7600-7777). Other than using something like a ROM for part of the driver it would be very hard to fit a driver into the available space in a 4K machine. I never heard of it being done, but who knows... Bob Hassinger hassinger@lmrc.com Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by CASPER.NA.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Wed, 12 May 1993 17:32:21 -0400 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Wed, 12 May 1993 17:32:16 -0400 Received: from CCA.CAMB.COM (camb.com) by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) for narem@cs.yale.edu id AA29631; Wed, 12 May 93 16:47:16 EDT Received: from vn-gateway by camb.com (PMDF V4.2-11 #4085) id <01GY3EVNJ3UO94DNL9@camb.com>; Wed, 12 May 1993 16:33:01 EDT Received: by lmrc.com (DECUS UUCP /2.0/2.0/2.0/); Wed, 12 May 93 15:23:34 EST Date: Wed, 12 May 1993 15:23:34 -0500 (EST) From: Bob Hassinger Subject: Re: Build your own? To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Message-Id: <0096C661DE208940.00006DAA@lmrc.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Vms-Mail-To: UUCP%"pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu" X-Vms-Mail-Cc: HASSINGER Date: Wed, 12 May 1993 15:23:34 -0500 (EST) From: Bob Hassinger Subject: Re: Build your own? To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Vms-Mail-To: UUCP%"pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu" X-Vms-Mail-Cc: HASSINGER The 6100, and later the 6120 where originally from Harris as I recall. Later it was the IM6100 - different vendor. The 6100 was the basis of the DECstation 78 - perhaps the slowest machine in the PDP-8 family, other than the 8-S of course, that DEC sold in any quantity. The later model (I am not certain it was "6120", but that sounds right) was the basis of the later DECmates. Quite an interesting machine at the time. Getting chips back then was pretty hard - something about DEC having an exclusive deal. Getting them now might be quite a trick. Its been a long time since I heard of any new ones being used by anyone. Bob Hassinger hassinger@lmrc.com Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by CASPER.NA.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Wed, 12 May 1993 19:17:28 -0400 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Wed, 12 May 1993 19:17:25 -0400 Received: from ULLA.FORNAX.COM by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) for narem@cs.yale.edu id AA03394; Wed, 12 May 93 18:35:11 EDT Date: Thu, 13 May 1993 00:35:23 +0300 (MET-DST) From: John Wilson Subject: Harris 6120 To: PDP8-LOVERS@ai.mit.edu Message-Id: <737242523.830000.WILSON@ULLA.FORNAX.COM> Mail-System-Version: Date: Thu, 13 May 1993 00:35:23 +0300 (MET-DST) From: John Wilson Subject: Harris 6120 To: PDP8-LOVERS@ai.mit.edu Mail-System-Version: By any chance does anyone have data sheets on the 6120 that they'd be willing to copy for me? (I cover costs of course) I have one that I pulled out of a DECmate motherboard a while ago, and I'd really love to build a PDP8-on-a-board to plug into my 386 so I can run OS/8 the same way everyone used to run CP/M on Apples... Many eons ago I got the 6100 data sheets from Intersil, but I haven't seen them in almost 10 years and I've heard it's way different anyway. Re building your own '8, one of the neat things about doing this is that all of the non-EAE operate instructions can be done combinatorially (i.e., just because the book says that IAC happens first and the RAL second doesn't mean they have to happen separately, just make sure the incrememter is upstream of the rotator). So you could make them run really fast. John Wilson Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by CASPER.NA.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Thu, 13 May 1993 01:55:07 -0400 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Thu, 13 May 1993 01:55:05 -0400 Received: from silver.ucs.indiana.edu by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) for narem@cs.yale.edu id AA11455; Thu, 13 May 93 01:25:07 EDT Message-Id: <9305130525.AA11455@life.ai.mit.edu> Received: by silver.ucs.indiana.edu (5.65c+/10jsm) id AA18098; Thu, 13 May 1993 00:25:07 -0500 Date: Thu, 13 May 1993 00:25:07 -0500 From: Jeff Russ To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: Re: Build your own? Date: Thu, 13 May 1993 00:25:07 -0500 From: Jeff Russ To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: Re: Build your own? If you're thinking about building a PDP8 you may want to take a look at the book: The Art of Digital Design, second edition Franklin Prosser and David Winkel Prentice-Hall, Copyright 1987 ISBN 0-13-046780-4 The authors demonstrate their design techniques by designing a PDP8. Here at IU Prosser & Winkel have the students in their class build a working PDP8 from TTL logic. To prove that the system works it must be able to run FOCAL. There is also a lot of useful design information in chapter 12 titled "Meeting the Real World". ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jeff Russ russ@silver.ucs.indiana.edu University Computing Services PHONE: (812) 855-2733 Indiana University, Bloomington, IN I want to buy old PDP[4-9] systems. Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by CASPER.NA.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Thu, 13 May 1993 08:41:42 -0400 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Thu, 13 May 1993 08:41:36 -0400 Received: from ghost.uunet.ca (uunet.ca) by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) for narem@cs.yale.edu id AA17010; Thu, 13 May 93 08:19:38 EDT Received: from isgtec by mail.uunet.ca with UUCP id <9787(5)>; Thu, 13 May 1993 08:19:18 -0400 Received: by isgtec.isgtec.com (/\=-/\ Smail3.1.18.1 #18.3) id ; Thu, 13 May 93 08:05 EDT Message-Id: From: bmw@isgtec.com (Bruce M. Walker) Received: by dagwood.isgtec.com (4.1/ISG-SUB-0.2) id AA19663; Thu, 13 May 93 08:05:01 EDT Subject: Re: Build your own? To: hassinger@lmrc.com (Bob Hassinger) Date: Thu, 13 May 1993 08:05:00 -0400 Cc: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu In-Reply-To: <0096C661DE208940.00006DAA@lmrc.com>; from "Bob Hassinger" at May 12, 93 3:23 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] From: bmw@isgtec.com (Bruce M. Walker) Subject: Re: Build your own? To: hassinger@lmrc.com (Bob Hassinger) Date: Thu, 13 May 1993 08:05:00 -0400 Cc: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu In-Reply-To: <0096C661DE208940.00006DAA@lmrc.com>; from "Bob Hassinger" at May 12, 93 3:23 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Bob Hassinger writes: > The 6100, and later the 6120 where originally from Harris as I recall. Later > it was the IM6100 - different vendor. 'Twas the other way round: Intersil first came out with the IM6100 (circa 1976?) and later Harris was an official second-source. Later still, DEC and Harris collaborated on the improved 6120. > The 6100 was the basis of the DECstation 78 - perhaps the slowest machine in > the PDP-8 family, other than the 8-S of course, that DEC sold in any quantity. Funny, that's not inherent in the chip. The IM6100 running at 8MHz (only possible with 10V Vcc) has faster timing than the 8/e. Even at 4MHz (5V Vcc), most instructions are about par (some faster) with the 8/e; some long indirect sequences are slower. > Getting chips back then was pretty hard - something about DEC having an > exclusive deal. 6120 maybe, certainly not so with the 6100. I bought several chipsets myself (6100 CPU, 6101 parallel port controller, 6102 DMA/memory extension, and ODT in ROM). They were "off the shelf" items at local distributers in 1977-78. > Getting them now might be quite a trick. Its been a long time > since I heard of any new ones being used by anyone. As micros they were always just curiosities (outside of DEC's own use). Despite huge support from "pdp8-lovers", there just wasn't ever the necessary market to sustain them. -- "Eventually, I decided that thinking was not getting me very far and it was time to try building." -- Rob Pike, The Text Editor sam bmw@isgtec.com [ ...!uunet.ca!isgtec!bmw ] Bruce Walker Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by CASPER.NA.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Sat, 15 May 1993 08:07:28 -0400 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Sat, 15 May 1993 08:07:24 -0400 Received: from opus.starlab.csc.com by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) for narem@cs.yale.edu id AA14476; Sat, 15 May 93 07:49:37 EDT Received: by opus.starlab.csc.com (4.1/SunOS-RJD-1.09) id AA00994; Sat, 15 May 93 07:45:22 EDT From: rmsmith@opus.starlab.csc.com (Robert Smith) Message-Id: <9305151145.AA00994@opus.starlab.csc.com> Subject: building your own To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu (pdp-8 lovers) Date: Sat, 15 May 93 7:45:21 EDT X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] From: rmsmith@opus.starlab.csc.com (Robert Smith) Subject: building your own To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu (pdp-8 lovers) Date: Sat, 15 May 93 7:45:21 EDT X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] To all: when this thread started, I responded to the gentlemen who asked - pardon my oldtimers, I can only remember a limited set of instructions - I mentioned the 6100 and 6120. I think I left a hint for John Captain Video Kirk to pipe in. I hae never seen the 6120 for sale to anyone other than DEC. I bit of trivia - Don White, John Kirk, George Lord, a few others and me, were the folks behind the 6120 that harris designed. Harris did an excellent job. They used the technology they developed to create a series of other processors. If anyone knows how to get their hands on a 6120 - and some supporting chips - even as spares from DEC, please advise!!! And YES you can creat a 10MHZ or better 8 machine from bitslice technology. Yes you can do it from asics/or fast proms or a state generator or a 181 type alu - despite the arguments that you don't need all of the capabilities with a 181 - jog some folks memeories about that arguement I hope I hope - OR - LIKE THE WORLD Famous Richie Larry - You could imbed an 8 in other machines like the PDP11/60..... Bob smith Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by CASPER.NA.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Wed, 19 May 1993 05:46:50 -0400 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Wed, 19 May 1993 05:46:48 -0400 Received: from silver.ucs.indiana.edu by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) for narem@cs.yale.edu id AA20856; Wed, 19 May 93 05:28:08 EDT Message-Id: <9305190928.AA20856@life.ai.mit.edu> Received: by silver.ucs.indiana.edu (5.65c+/10jsm) id AA25031; Wed, 19 May 1993 04:28:08 -0500 Date: Wed, 19 May 1993 04:28:08 -0500 From: Jeff Russ To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: pdp9/pdp15 dectapes on a pdp8/td8e? Date: Wed, 19 May 1993 04:28:08 -0500 From: Jeff Russ To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: pdp9/pdp15 dectapes on a pdp8/td8e? Does anyone out there know of a utility program to read/write PDP9/PDP15 dec tapes on a PDP8/TD8E system? I'm not even sure if its possible to do something like that on a TD8E. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jeff Russ russ@silver.ucs.indiana.edu University Computing Services PHONE: (812) 855-2733 Indiana University, Bloomington, IN I want to buy old PDP[4-9] systems. Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by CASPER.NA.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Wed, 26 May 1993 10:59:43 -0400 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Wed, 26 May 1993 10:59:40 -0400 Received: from ns-mx.uiowa.edu by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) for narem@cs.yale.edu id AA04710; Wed, 26 May 93 10:31:40 EDT Received: from pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu by ns-mx.uiowa.edu (5.64.jnf/920408) on Wed, 26 May 93 09:31:37 -0500 id AA21297 with SMTP Received: by pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (5.59/890218) on Wed, 26 May 93 09:31:31 CDT id AA04449 Date: Wed, 26 May 93 09:31:31 CDT From: Douglas W. Jones Message-Id: <9305261431.AA04449@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu> To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: cable help Date: Wed, 26 May 93 09:31:31 CDT From: Douglas W. Jones To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: cable help I need to build a 7008288 cable. This is the cable that runs from the power control relay box at the back of the cabinet to the back of a PDP-8/F (or just about any other DEC minicomputer), connected to the relay box and the computer by 3-pin Mate-N-Lock connectors. I'd like to build as close to DEC's specs as I can, so if anyone knows what an original DEC cable looks like, could they tell me: 1) How long is it? I've seen 7008288-2 and 7008288-8F cables mentioned, and I suspect that they differ in length -- is the -2 and the -8F suffix really the length in feet? 2) What gauge wire did DEC use. It's just relay current, so it didn't need to be big. 3) What colors are the wires, and how are they cabled (wire ties, vinyl jacket)? Any help would be appreciated. Doug Jones jones@cs.uiowa.edu From henlib@nevada.edu Fri May 28 17:31:21 1993 Return-Path: Received: from cunixf.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (5.59/FCB/jba) id AA15309; Fri, 28 May 93 17:31:20 EDT Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (5.59/FCB/jba) id AA03795; Fri, 28 May 93 17:29:59 EDT Received: from redrock.nevada.edu by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) for lasner@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu id AA18336; Fri, 28 May 93 17:09:37 EDT Received: from localhost.nevada.edu by redrock.nevada.edu (5.65c/M1.4) with SMTP id ; Fri, 28 May 1993 14:09:34 -0700 Message-Id: <199305282109.AA20255@redrock.nevada.edu> To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: subs Date: Fri, 28 May 93 14:09:33 -0700 From: henlib@nevada.edu lists From henlib@nevada.edu Fri May 28 17:31:23 1993 Return-Path: Received: from cunixf.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (5.59/FCB/jba) id AA15314; Fri, 28 May 93 17:31:23 EDT Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (5.59/FCB/jba) id AA31338; Fri, 28 May 93 17:30:04 EDT Received: from redrock.nevada.edu by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) for lasner@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu id AA18328; Fri, 28 May 93 17:09:06 EDT Received: from localhost.nevada.edu by redrock.nevada.edu (5.65c/M1.4) with SMTP id ; Fri, 28 May 1993 14:08:58 -0700 Message-Id: <199305282108.AA20241@redrock.nevada.edu> To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: subscription Date: Fri, 28 May 93 14:08:56 -0700 From: henlib@nevada.edu subscribe Barrie Hiern