From prp@ssd.intel.com Fri Jul 1 02:09:06 EDT 1994 Article: 955 of alt.sys.pdp8 Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8 Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!MathWorks.Com!news.kei.com!ssd.intel.com!prp From: prp@ssd.intel.com (Paul Pierce) Subject: PDP-8 pictures Message-ID: Sender: usenet@SSD.intel.com Nntp-Posting-Host: hera Organization: Intel Date: Thu, 30 Jun 1994 22:00:15 GMT Lines: 17 I'm moving my collection and taking pictures as I go. I have uploaded pix of some of my PDP-8's to sunsite.unc.edu in the /pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-8 archive. Look for files of the form "pdp8*-p.*". The pictures are in .jpg, there is some description in pdp8-p.txt. These are not great shots but might be of interest, especially for models you might not have seen. Some of the shots are a bit dark but look much better if you bring the darker shades up with xv. I've only moved about a third of the collection so far, so there are pictures of the PDP-8, 8/I, 12, 8a and WT/78. The next part goes in August and if I can keep up I'll add pictures of the PDP-5, 8e, and DECmate II by the end of the year. -- Paul Pierce prp@ssd.intel.com Intel From pi92ts@pt.hk-r.se Fri Jul 1 23:49:52 EDT 1994 Article: 956 of alt.sys.pdp8 Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8 Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!jussieu.fr!univ-lille1.fr!ciril.fr!muller!julienas!EU.net!sunic!news.lth.se!news.lu.se!news From: pi92ts@pt.hk-r.se (Tommy Stendahl) Subject: Re: Bootstrap OS-8 Message-ID: <1994Jul1.113453.18578@nomina.lu.se> Sender: news@nomina.lu.se (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: lalle.pt.hk-r.se Reply-To: pi92ts@pt.hk-r.se Organization: University Karlskrona/Ronneby, Sweden References: <2us58s$v3d@bigblue.oit.unc.edu> Date: Fri, 1 Jul 1994 11:34:53 GMT Lines: 19 In article v3d@bigblue.oit.unc.edu, lasner@sunSITE.unc.edu (Charles Lasner) writes: >OK, the posted copy of record 0 is indeed OS/8 for an RK8E. and should >boot. OS/8 comes up by looping somewhere around 1207. The wait loop is >the 6031; JMP .-1 if you get that far. > I have looked around 1207 but I haven't found that loop. Then I filled 1100- 1300 with 7777 and they were never overwriten. It looks like it hangs at 7727 atleast thats the memory address shown on the front panel. >But this is the right boot block. Whether the rest of the system it loads >is valid remains to be seen! > Ok, what do you suggest as next step? >cjl > Tommy From jones@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu Fri Jul 1 23:50:18 EDT 1994 Article: 957 of alt.sys.pdp8 Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.uiowa.edu!news From: jones@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879) Newsgroups: comp.emulators.misc,alt.sys.pdp8 Subject: Bug notice: PDP-8 X-windows emulator Date: 1 Jul 1994 20:35:24 GMT Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA Lines: 12 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2v1umc$ah@nexus.uiowa.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu comp.emulators.misc:612 alt.sys.pdp8:957 In the emulator for the PDP-8 under X that I recently announced (and distributed), there's a bug -- everyone who got a copy! "kc8m.c", line 87: As distributed: (* (temp -> dismount))( u ); It ought to be: (* (temp -> dismount))( temp -> unit ); Sorry about that -- this only shows up if you try to make the straight portable C version that doesn't rest on X windows. Sorry about that. Doug Jones jones@cs.uiowa.edu From lasner@sunSITE.unc.edu Sat Jul 2 00:05:11 EDT 1994 Article: 958 of alt.sys.pdp8 Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!sunSITE!lasner From: lasner@sunSITE.unc.edu (Charles Lasner) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8 Subject: Re: Bootstrap OS-8 Date: 2 Jul 1994 04:05:28 GMT Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill Lines: 30 Message-ID: <2v2p28$s1g@bigblue.oit.unc.edu> References: <2us58s$v3d@bigblue.oit.unc.edu> <1994Jul1.113453.18578@nomina.lu.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: calzone.oit.unc.edu In article <1994Jul1.113453.18578@nomina.lu.se>, Tommy Stendahl wrote: >In article v3d@bigblue.oit.unc.edu, lasner@sunSITE.unc.edu (Charles Lasner) writes: >>OK, the posted copy of record 0 is indeed OS/8 for an RK8E. and should >>boot. OS/8 comes up by looping somewhere around 1207. The wait loop is >>the 6031; JMP .-1 if you get that far. >> >I have looked around 1207 but I haven't found that loop. Then I filled 1100- >1300 with 7777 and they were never overwriten. It looks like it hangs at 7727 >atleast thats the memory address shown on the front panel. > >>But this is the right boot block. Whether the rest of the system it loads >>is valid remains to be seen! >> >Ok, what do you suggest as next step? Too much in one step to check out. Let's do something less: First do what we've been doing. Stop it, and the contents get to be what you've given us, etc. Change location 0011 to 7402 (HLT). Load Address 0030 and hit continue. DO NOT HIT CLEAR! When the machine halts again at 0011 (displays 0012), *then* give us the contents of 07600-07777 and 17600-17777. cjl From pi92ts@pt.hk-r.se Sat Jul 2 17:55:22 EDT 1994 Article: 959 of alt.sys.pdp8 Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8 Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.lth.se!news.lu.se!news From: pi92ts@pt.hk-r.se (Tommy Stendahl) Subject: Re: Bootstrap OS-8 Message-ID: <1994Jul2.172918.29628@nomina.lu.se> Sender: news@nomina.lu.se (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: lalle.pt.hk-r.se Reply-To: pi92ts@pt.hk-r.se Organization: University Karlskrona/Ronneby, Sweden References: <2v2p28$s1g@bigblue.oit.unc.edu> Date: Sat, 2 Jul 1994 17:29:18 GMT Lines: 56 In article s1g@bigblue.oit.unc.edu, lasner@sunSITE.unc.edu (Charles Lasner) writes: >First do what we've been doing. Stop it, and the contents get to be what >you've given us, etc. > >Change location 0011 to 7402 (HLT). > >Load Address 0030 and hit continue. DO NOT HIT CLEAR! > >When the machine halts again at 0011 (displays 0012), *then* give us the >contents of 07600-07777 and 17600-17777. > >cjl > 07600 - 07777: 07600: 4207 5000 0000 0033 7602 6213 5267 0003 07610: 7300 1207 3221 5224 6260 4070 3760 6202 07620: 0037 0003 7200 1214 3207 7346 3351 6214 07630: 1217 3337 1221 3221 1621 0215 1342 3353 07640: 1621 2221 0216 7450 7330 3352 1621 2221 07650: 6744 1621 7100 1207 3350 7430 2353 3354 07660: 1352 0335 7650 1341 1354 7112 1353 6746 07670: 1350 6743 6741 5272 6745 7104 7640 5317 07700: 7410 7402 1352 1335 7550 5334 3352 1350 07710: 7040 0220 7640 7130 2350 5257 5256 6742 07720: 7126 6742 6741 5342 6742 6745 7640 5324 07730: 7344 2351 5232 5336 2221 7600 2221 7402 07740: 7344 2351 5232 5336 2221 7600 2221 7402 07750: 7750 7751 7752 7753 7754 7755 7607 4756 07760: 3700 0000 0365 7402 5372 4207 0300 7000 07770: 0035 7402 6203 6042 5775 0200 0000 0200 17600-17777: 17600: 6031 5200 6036 6046 6041 5204 5200 1335 17610: 7041 1336 7650 5226 3333 1336 1376 7450 17620: 1375 1374 3336 1736 6203 5773 6201 1772 17630: 6231 0371 7650 5203 3333 7240 5224 0201 17640: 6031 5637 4310 7200 1333 7640 5255 7607 17650: 7607 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 17660: 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 6202 17670: 4207 1000 0000 0007 7746 6203 5677 1077 17700: 0000 3340 6214 1275 3336 6401 1674 7010 17710: 6211 7630 5321 6202 4207 5010 0000 0027 17720: 7402 6202 4207 0610 0000 0013 7602 5020 17730: 6202 4207 1010 0000 0027 7402 0000 5700 17740: 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 17750: 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 17760: 4230 4230 4230 4230 4230 4230 4230 4230 17770: 4250 4250 0000 1040 1020 2010 0000 0000 07600-07777 looks like its the same as 0200-0377. What do you think about it? Tommy From lasner@sunSITE.unc.edu Sat Jul 2 17:56:08 EDT 1994 Article: 960 of alt.sys.pdp8 Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!sunSITE!lasner From: lasner@sunSITE.unc.edu (Charles Lasner) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8 Subject: Re: Bootstrap OS-8 Date: 2 Jul 1994 21:56:00 GMT Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill Lines: 88 Message-ID: <2v4npg$d4t@bigblue.oit.unc.edu> References: <2v2p28$s1g@bigblue.oit.unc.edu> <1994Jul2.172918.29628@nomina.lu.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: calzone.oit.unc.edu OK, almost right. 17705 should be 6201; you report it as 6401, so I'll assume you misread it. This is a successful precursor to a bootstrap for OS/8, so apparently the hardware for the RK is fine. The next thing to do is to read in some random stuff just to see if the handler itself is functional. The handler is located at 07607. You call it with: JMS I (7607) FUNCTION ADDRESS RECORD ERROR-RETURN GOOD-RETURN The error return must have a negative AC. The good return must have a clear AC. The function is: 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 r/w p p p p p f f f x x x Bit[0]=1 means to write; clear it to read. Bits[1-5] form a page count of 00-37 pages to read. 00 means 40 (an entire field). Bits[6-8] are the field 0-7 and thus are the high-order bits of the 15-bit extended memory address for the disk buffer. Bits[9-11] are ignored in all system handlers except it's a vestigial feature seldom used, and only then by some tape handlers. Replacement handlers either exist or can be written to do a better job of searching than the actual info imparted by this seldom used bit. (Because statically it's not as determinable as dynamically by the handler itself; DEC's official handlers don't do it that way, but can be made to, etc.) In any case, no handler uses Bits[9-10] ever. (Note: this is a discussion of system handlers; there are non-system non-file-structured handlers which do use the bits!) The address is the 12 low-order bits of the 15-bit transfer address for the DMA to start from/to. Since PDP-8's are reckoned by field, this is a natural division, etc. The record is the starting logical record for the transfer. On the RK8E, records are mapped straightforwardly where the first 16 records 0-15 are on the first surface and the next 16 records 16-31 are on the second surface. Then the entire process repeats on the next cylinder. The legitimate range of the argument should extend to the first physical half of the disk, but in actuality, the RK handler is capable of passing any argument up to logical record 4095! In octal, you ought to limit the argument to the range 0000-6257, but in fact can extend it to 7777 by violating part of the space addressed by the RKB0: handler which basically adds 6260 to the callers record number. Thus, it's possible to illegally violate the RKB0: region with a call such as for record 6260 which overlaps with RKB0:'s logical record 0000, etc. In any case, experimenting with the handler, keep this in mind! So, a good test case would be to read in a copy of the boot block into another buffer, and see if it agrees with the contents of 00000-00377. Pre-load 12000-12377 with 7777. Then run the following: 04000/ 6203 04001/ 4777 04002/ 0210 04003/ 2000 04004/ 0000 04005/ 7402 04006/ 7402 04177/ 7607 First unload the disk. Starting at 04000 should cause it to halt at 4005 with a negative AC due to the not-ready error. Then ready the disk and manually write-protect it. (This is supposed to be a read operation!) Starting again at 04000 should cause it to halt at 4006 with a clear AC. Then examine the contents of 12000-12377; they should match what's in 00000-00377. Try that! cjl From pi92ts@pt.hk-r.se Mon Jul 4 07:05:49 EDT 1994 Article: 961 of alt.sys.pdp8 Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8 Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.lth.se!news.lu.se!news From: pi92ts@pt.hk-r.se (Tommy Stendahl) Subject: Re: Bootstrap OS-8 Message-ID: <1994Jul3.130835.20538@nomina.lu.se> Sender: news@nomina.lu.se (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: lalle.pt.hk-r.se Reply-To: pi92ts@pt.hk-r.se Organization: University Karlskrona/Ronneby, Sweden References: <2v4npg$d4t@bigblue.oit.unc.edu> Date: Sun, 3 Jul 1994 13:08:35 GMT Lines: 49 In article d4t@bigblue.oit.unc.edu, lasner@sunSITE.unc.edu (Charles Lasner) writes: > >OK, almost right. 17705 should be 6201; you report it as 6401, so I'll >assume you misread it. > Yes, I had misread it and it is 6201. >So, a good test case would be to read in a copy of the boot block into >another buffer, and see if it agrees with the contents of 00000-00377. > >Pre-load 12000-12377 with 7777. Then run the following: > >04000/ 6203 >04001/ 4777 >04002/ 0210 >04003/ 2000 >04004/ 0000 >04005/ 7402 >04006/ 7402 > >04177/ 7607 > >First unload the disk. Starting at 04000 should cause it to halt at 4005 >with a negative AC due to the not-ready error. Then ready the disk and >manually write-protect it. (This is supposed to be a read operation!) >Starting again at 04000 should cause it to halt at 4006 with a clear AC. >Then examine the contents of 12000-12377; they should match what's in >00000-00377. > >Try that! > I have tryed it and it dosen't work as expected. The correct record is read from disk and is put at the correct address put the handler never returns. It looks like it get into a loop at 07727. What I mean is that the run light is still on and the memory address shown on the front panel is 07727. Then I pressed HALT I checked the contents of 12000-12377 and it was the same as 00000-00377. If I run it without loading a disk it still get to the loop at 07727 and stays there. >cjl > Tommy From pi92ts@pt.hk-r.se Tue Jul 5 18:43:55 EDT 1994 Article: 962 of alt.sys.pdp8 Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8 Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sunic!news.lth.se!news.lu.se!news From: pi92ts@pt.hk-r.se (Tommy Stendahl) Subject: RK8E problems Message-ID: <1994Jul5.201004.13262@nomina.lu.se> Sender: news@nomina.lu.se (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: lalle.pt.hk-r.se Reply-To: pi92ts@pt.hk-r.se Organization: University Karlskrona/Ronneby, Sweden Date: Tue, 5 Jul 1994 20:10:04 GMT Lines: 6 Is there anyone how has the schematic diagrams for the RK8E and is willing to provide me with a copy of them? Tommy From david.turner@asacomp.com Mon Jul 11 21:30:13 EDT 1994 Article: 963 of alt.sys.pdp8 Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8 Subject: DROP From: david.turner@asacomp.com (David Turner) Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!barrnet.net!infoserv!asacomp!david.turner Distribution: world Message-ID: <35.516.2946@asacomp.com> Date: Sun, 10 Jul 94 21:33:00 -0500 Organization: ASA CompuHelp, Inc. Lines: 2 Control message generated by QMPro 1.0 From geremin@decus.org.au Tue Jul 12 21:29:13 EDT 1994 Article: 964 of alt.sys.pdp8 Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!darwin.sura.net!convex!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!munnari.oz.au!ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU!ucsvc.ucs.unimelb.edu.au!decus!geremin Newsgroups: decus.nop,comp.sys.dec,aus.general,alt.sys.pdp11,alt.sys.pdp8 Subject: Aust.Computer Museum Society - Formation Meeting. Message-ID: <1994Jul12.235107.14952@decus.org.au> From: geremin@decus.org.au Date: 12 Jul 94 23:51:07 AEST Organization: DECUS Australia Lines: 61 Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu comp.sys.dec:21047 alt.sys.pdp8:964 Notice of FORMATION MEETING of Australian Computer Museum Society. ====================================== Time: 3pm on Sunday, 31st July 1994. Place: Veteran Car Club Hall, 134 Queens Road, FIVEDOCK, NSW. Agenda items to be considered will include:- 1. Initial membership fees. Suggested $20 for students/pensioners, and $50 for other individual members. 2. Discussion on Major Objectives of the Society. This will not be a 'hobby' club but the foundation of a formal and hopefully national group who would consist of professional and hobby computer people. What priorities can be set for proposed activities. a) One major aim is to have a functional Computer Museum running by the year 1999 - in 5 years time. b) Another is an Australian Software Archive for the long-term preservation of software . c) A Computer Documentation Library has also been suggested as a necessary adjunct to any hardware collections that may be undertaken. d) Workshop facilities for the restoration/testing of vintage hardware and associated devices. 3. Adoption of draft set of Rules until incorporation. 4. Election of interim committee members. Secretary/Treasurer, Newsletter Editor, Publicity Officer, etc, as decided. 5. Liasing with the Powerhouse Museum and other Computer User Groups, the A.C.S. and related organisations. 6. Services/facilities for members. E-mail, etc. Please REPLY if interested to Megatronics, fax 02-764 4679 or by e-mail to "geremin@decus.org.au" or leave a message on 02-764 4855 so that we can send you a copy of the initial newsletter. Afternoon tea will be provided at the conclusion of the meeting. Please distribute this notice freely. v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v John Geremin, Computer MUSEUM Collector (free pick-up in Sydney). IN%"geremin@decus.org.au" or fax: 02- 764 4679 (24 hours). -^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^- From jones@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu Mon Jul 18 04:54:36 EDT 1994 Article: 965 of alt.sys.pdp8 Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.uiowa.edu!news From: jones@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8 Subject: Newman Computer Exchange Date: 17 Jul 1994 16:53:54 GMT Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA Lines: 61 Distribution: world Message-ID: <30bnn2$5bp@nexus.uiowa.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu I was in Dexter, Michigan, the day before yesterday, so I stopped by Newman Computer Exchange (now The Newman Group) to see what they had. They still do have some PDP-8 parts in hand, here is the list: M882 DK8EA Real Time Clock (Line Frequency) M8316 DKC8AA PDP-8/A I/O serial/parallel/clock (hex wide) G8016 PDP-8/A Power Supply (MOS) G8018 PDP-8/A Power Supply (Core) . KC8AA PDP-8/A Programmer's Console M8340? KE8EA Extended arithmetic element M8341? KE8EA Extended arithmetic element M8315 KK8A PDP-8/A CPU board (hex wide) M8319 KL8A PDP-8/A 4 channel serial I/O M8655 KL8JA Terminal Control (UART based substitute for M8650) M8653 KL8M Modem Control, used with KL8* to provide data ready stuff M8317 KM8AA PDP-8/A bootstrap, powerfail (hex wide) M837 KM8E Extended Memory and Time Share Control M848 KP8E Power fail and auto-restart M8416 KT8AA PDP8A Memory Management (hex wide) M847 MI8E Hardware Bootstrap Loader MS8CB PDP-8/A 32K MOS memory MS8DJ PDP-8/A 128K MOS memory M8433 RL8A Disk controller for RL01/02 (hex wide) They say that they have large quantities of some of these items available, I'd guess, leftovers from DEC's fire sale on PDP-8 Omnibus boards. I took the time to translate the board numbers and option names they listed to the descriptions given above. Anyway, this is far from a complete assortment of PDP-8 stuff, but it may still be useful. The E-mail address of the salesperson I talked to is Narda Hyter, hyter@newman.com, and the phone number is 313-426-0705. I've heard comments about the outrageous prices that places like DEC and Newman are charging for obsolete boards you can get for loose change on the surplus market. In my opinion, these prices remain justified as long as there are PDP-8 systems in critical production applications. Doug Jones jones@cs.uiowa.edu From asvirsky@lynx.dac.neu.edu Tue Jul 19 20:31:26 EDT 1994 Article: 966 of alt.sys.pdp8 Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!inxs.concert.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!decwrl!hookup!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!newsserver.jvnc.net!yale.edu!noc.near.net!chaos.dac.neu.edu!lynx.dac.neu.edu!not-for-mail From: asvirsky@lynx.dac.neu.edu (alex svirsky) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8 Subject: DECmate III help Date: 18 Jul 1994 22:39:12 -0400 Organization: Northeastern University, Boston, MA. 02115, USA Lines: 15 Message-ID: <30fecg$ak3@lynx.dac.neu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: lynx.dac.neu.edu Hi! I just bought a DECmate III at a ham flea market, and I am looking for some help in getting the most out of it. Will it run anything else besides WPS? It makes a great terminal. What can os278 do for the DECmate III, and where could I get it? How can I get a working copy of Kermit on the DMIII? I have seen these in the ftp sites, but I have no idea how to get these from there into the DMIII. I only have WPS right now. I have a copy of a DEC games disk from my mother's DECmate II. It doesn't work in my DMIII. What could be the difference between the two machines that would cause this? Any help would be appreciated! Thanks, Alex Svirsky asvirsky@lynx.neu.edu From lasner@sunSITE.unc.edu Tue Jul 19 21:10:25 EDT 1994 Article: 967 of alt.sys.pdp8 Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!sunSITE!lasner From: lasner@sunSITE.unc.edu (Charles Lasner) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8 Subject: Re: DECmate III help Date: 20 Jul 1994 01:08:25 GMT Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill Lines: 88 Message-ID: <30hte9$dqp@bigblue.oit.unc.edu> References: <30fecg$ak3@lynx.dac.neu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: calzone.oit.unc.edu In article <30fecg$ak3@lynx.dac.neu.edu>, alex svirsky wrote: > Hi! I just bought a DECmate III at a ham flea market, and I am >looking for some help in getting the most out of it. It's becoming increasingly obvious that we need a FAQ file for new DECmate owners! > Will it run anything else besides WPS? It makes a great >terminal. What can os278 do for the DECmate III, and where could I get it? The III is the baby of the line. Without a hard disk, it can only do what you can do on either the III+ or the II with floppies only. Also, no MS-DOS board was ever sold, so only APU and graphics board options ever appear in the picture. Most of the software revolves around no option boards anyway, so not to worry. >How can I get a working copy of Kermit on the DMIII? I have seen these >in the ftp sites, but I have no idea how to get these from there into >the DMIII. I only have WPS right now. First you need OS/278 V2 that coincidentally is going into the archive tonight. What I mean is that one area of the archive on sunsite.unc.edu is concerned with source and binary files geared to those interested in the system at that level or deeper. The diskimage area is for those who want or need an entire image of a disk or disks. A working copy of OS/278 V2 already setup with Kermit-12 will be in there shortly, etc. All of the current files in the pdp-8/diskimages/teledisk area are in .ZIP format needing the PC PKZ204G version of PKUNZIP or equivalent. This in turn produces .TD0 files that are used with TELEDISK to produce RX50 diskettes directly on the PC. *LOW* density media are required and must be created on a *HIGH* density drive. This is because the RX50 runs at the same frequency as DSDD diskettes yet has the same *track* density as HD diskettes. As a frill, printable label files are also included that are suitable for printing on 4-line address labels 3.5" x 15/16 to produce a nice diskette label, etc. > I have a copy of a DEC games disk from my mother's DECmate II. Please specify which diskette you have. I assume it's one of the known set: DECmate Games Disk V1, or V1.1, or V2.0, or possibly Advent. All but V1.0 will be available shortly in the archive as time permits the transfers, etc. (V1.0 is obsoleted by 1.1.) >It doesn't work in my DMIII. What could be the difference between the >two machines that would cause this? This is a common problem. The DM III requires a much newer version of the slushware than does the II. Same for a III+. To my knowledge, there is never a problem with abandoning older slushware. Slushware updating is accomplished using the System Test Diskette. Version 4.5 (last known version) is present in the archive and will impart Version 422 (last known version) to any bootable diskette using the system update feature, etc. Anyone have any experience with attempting this on a DECmate III+ with *only one drive*? (Perhaps it uses an area of the hard disk, since that's always present? Master Menu supports doing disk copying that way, etc.) The working copy of OS/278, as well as several (but not all!) of the disk images in sunsite have already been updated. However, several release disks have not been. Thus, DM III and + users have to update the diskettes themselves, etc. Additionally, there are reports that the provided comm port printer handler doesn't work as written on a III (and presumably a + ?) due to quirks that happen to work on a II, which was the only machine in existance when the code was written, etc. Future development efforts should eliminate this snag. In any case, using the printer port handlers isn't a problem. > > Any help would be appreciated! Just about anything you need to know, or never imagined actually existed regarding the problem of using a PC to acquire the diskette images is available on the sunsite archive in the docs directory as rx50faq.doc. The referenced files are commonly available on the net. Sunsite will likely eventually carry all of them, etc. > > Thanks, > Alex Svirsky asvirsky@lynx.neu.edu cjl From ivie@cc.usu.edu Wed Jul 20 17:29:06 EDT 1994 Article: 968 of alt.sys.pdp8 Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!inxs.concert.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!fastrac.llnl.gov!cronkite.nersc.gov!dancer.ca.sandia.gov!overload.lbl.gov!dog.ee.lbl.gov!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!ivie From: ivie@cc.usu.edu Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8 Subject: Re: DECmate III help Message-ID: <1994Jul20.104122.23437@cc.usu.edu> Date: 20 Jul 94 10:41:22 MDT References: <30fecg$ak3@lynx.dac.neu.edu> <30hte9$dqp@bigblue.oit.unc.edu> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 13 In article <30hte9$dqp@bigblue.oit.unc.edu>, lasner@sunSITE.unc.edu (Charles Lasner) writes: > All of the current files in the pdp-8/diskimages/teledisk area are in > .ZIP format needing the PC PKZ204G version of PKUNZIP or equivalent. The full path, for those of us with short memories or that are new, is /pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-8/diskimages/teledisk (took me a while to find it yesterday, due to brain rot...). -- ----------------+------------------------------------------------------ Roger Ivie | Don't think of it as a 'new' computer, think of it as ivie@cc.usu.edu | 'obsolete-ready' From lasner@sunSITE.unc.edu Wed Jul 20 17:29:29 EDT 1994 Article: 969 of alt.sys.pdp8 Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!sunSITE!lasner From: lasner@sunSITE.unc.edu (Charles Lasner) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8 Subject: Re: DECmate III help Date: 20 Jul 1994 21:29:57 GMT Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill Lines: 18 Message-ID: <30k50l$drg@bigblue.oit.unc.edu> References: <30fecg$ak3@lynx.dac.neu.edu> <30hte9$dqp@bigblue.oit.unc.edu> <1994Jul20.104122.23437@cc.usu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: calzone.oit.unc.edu In article <1994Jul20.104122.23437@cc.usu.edu>, wrote: >The full path, for those of us with short memories or that are new, is > /pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-8/diskimages/teledisk >(took me a while to find it yesterday, due to brain rot...). This long path encourages rot :-). When I'm logged in on sunsite, I have a symbolic link to it as merely pdp-8, so I avoid all of the /pub/academic/computer-science/history part. Is there some way to impart this capability to an anonymous ftp user? cjl From jones@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu Thu Jul 21 10:51:57 EDT 1994 Article: 970 of alt.sys.pdp8 Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!inxs.concert.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!fastrac.llnl.gov!cronkite.nersc.gov!dancer.ca.sandia.gov!overload.lbl.gov!agate!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.uiowa.edu!news From: jones@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8 Subject: Re: DECmate III help Date: 20 Jul 1994 22:02:21 GMT Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA Lines: 23 Distribution: world Message-ID: <30k6td$4sa@nexus.uiowa.edu> References: <30k50l$drg@bigblue.oit.unc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu >From article <30k50l$drg@bigblue.oit.unc.edu>, by lasner@sunSITE.unc.edu (Charles Lasner): > >> /pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-8/diskimages/teledisk > This long path encourages rot :-). > When I'm logged in on sunsite, I have a symbolic link to it as merely > pdp-8, so I avoid all of the /pub/academic/computer-science/history part. > > Is there some way to impart this capability to an anonymous ftp user? It's called world wide web, also available using services such as Gopher and Panda (originally, WWW and Gopher (or Panda) were two different things, but as time passes, they're converging). I've just gotten around to exploring what you can do with WWW (or rather, with NCSA Mosaic, as a web client), and it's quite impressive. A WWW document is a hypertext object, and it can include pointers to other WWW documents, files in ftp directories, and other such things. I'll start to organize some WWW pages fairly soon to put all of the stuff I have in order for public access, and I strongly encourage others to do so as well. Doug Jones jones@cs.uiowa.edu From sholmes@netrix.com Sun Jul 24 06:00:56 EDT 1994 Article: 971 of alt.sys.pdp8 Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8 Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!pipex!sunic!ugle.unit.no!trane.uninett.no!eunet.no!nuug!EU.net!uunet!psinntp!netrixgw.netrix.com!mac_hq_1.netrix.com!user From: sholmes@netrix.com (Stephen R Holmes) Subject: PDP-8e for sale, trade, or giveaway Message-ID: Sender: news@netrix.com Organization: Netrix Corporation Date: Sat, 23 Jul 1994 02:08:16 GMT Lines: 32 Complete, working PDP-8e minicomputer to sell, trade, or giveaway! Originally configured as a data communications switch from Digital Communications Associates (DCA), comes with extended mother-board, 48 programmable serial I/O ports, "ASCII front panel" console interface (as well as the zillion front-panel lamps and toggle-switches), heavy-duty external P/S in addition to the PDP-8e built- in. Rack-mounted in standard 19" six-foot rack, on wheels. Also included: lots of software (on paper tape!), paper- tape reader/punch(!), lots of documentation (including some board schematics), and many spare boards. Terms: (1) Cash: no reasonable offer refused. (2) Trade: anything remotely useful for a Macintosh user. (3) Giveaway: if you have a genuine need and (1) and (2) are out of the question for you. The Catch: U-haul, from Clifton, VA area (about 20 miles west of Washington, DC) Best offer gets this priceless showpiece of 12-bit technology! PLEASE e-mail any offer to: sholmes@netrix.com /srh -- Stephen R. Holmes | sholmes@netrix.com | the usual disclaimers Netrix Corporation | srh@netrix.com | ..... Herndon, VA USA | srholmes@aol.com | witty saying TBD From jones@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu Tue Jul 26 11:42:52 EDT 1994 Article: 972 of alt.sys.pdp8 Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.uiowa.edu!news From: jones@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Collector's Guide to Personal Computers Date: 25 Jul 1994 01:33:20 GMT Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA Lines: 26 Distribution: world Message-ID: <30v4p0$do7@nexus.uiowa.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu alt.sys.pdp8:972 alt.folklore.computers:70441 I just got an odd ad in yesterday's mail, from Books Americana, POB 2326, Florence, AL 35630. The ad is for Tom Haddock's Collector's Guide to Personal Computers. Has anyone looked at this book? I'm not anxious to spring $14.95 for such a book, when I could spend the money on photocopies of rare documentation. Is it any good? In addition to the publisher's catalog, listing various collector's guides, none of the others related to computers, the mailing included two newspaper clippings: One was from the Chicago Tribune, Thurs, May 19, 1994 Section 6, pages 1 and 13, entitled They're a Real Find -- Collectors Discover a New Use for Old Computers, a New York Times News Service article; it features CHAC and the Historical Computer Club. The other reprint if from the New York Times, May 20, 1993, in The Living Arts section, entitled 19th Century Calculator Sells for $11.8 Million. The clippings were nice. I may actually keep the Tribune clipping on file. Doug Jones jones@cs.uiowa.edu From jones@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu Tue Jul 26 11:43:43 EDT 1994 Article: 973 of alt.sys.pdp8 Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.uiowa.edu!news From: jones@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8 Subject: Re: PDP-8e for sale, trade, or giveaway Date: 25 Jul 1994 01:38:25 GMT Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA Lines: 23 Distribution: world Message-ID: <30v52h$dpm@nexus.uiowa.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu >From article , by sholmes@netrix.com (Stephen R Holmes): > Rack-mounted in standard 19" six-foot rack, on wheels. > > The Catch: U-haul, from Clifton, VA area (about 20 miles > west of Washington, DC) I've hauled such systems in a Dodge Caravan. You have to remove both rear seats, pull everything from the rack, including side skins and front and back door, then slide the rack into the van, then carefully pack the sides and door on top of the rack (separated by carpet scraps, tied down securely), then carefully fit the rack mounted pieces into the van beside or inside the rack. It works out pretty well, in my experience. Unplug cables with care, recording where they came from, and take any other notes you need to get it all back together. Don't lose those 10-32 screws! DEC uses a nice grade of screw quite a bit better than anything I've found in local hardware stores. Doug Jones jones@cs.uiowa.edu From krause@azu.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de Tue Jul 26 11:44:49 EDT 1994 Article: 974 of alt.sys.pdp8 Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8,alt.folklore.computers Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news.duke.edu!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!xlink.net!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!news.belwue.de!news.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de!news From: krause@azu.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de (krause) Subject: Re: Collector's Guide to Personal Computers Message-ID: Sender: news@informatik.uni-stuttgart.de Organization: Informatik, Uni Stuttgart, Germany References: <30v4p0$do7@nexus.uiowa.edu> Date: Mon, 25 Jul 1994 09:18:02 GMT Lines: 45 Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu alt.sys.pdp8:974 alt.folklore.computers:70464 In article <30v4p0$do7@nexus.uiowa.edu> jones@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879) writes: >I just got an odd ad in yesterday's mail, from Books Americana, >POB 2326, Florence, AL 35630. The ad is for Tom Haddock's >Collector's Guide to Personal Computers. > >Has anyone looked at this book? I'm not anxious to spring >$14.95 for such a book, when I could spend the money on >photocopies of rare documentation. Is it any good? > I bought this book in the computer museum in Boston, and I think it's worth $14.95. It contains photos (partially in a poor quality) of many (perhaps 50%) of the computers, and short summary of the systems: in most cases CPU-type, clock rate memory size and kind of periphery. No technical details. There is also a collector's value, but I don't know if that makes sense: Here in germany I can find an Osborne 1 on one fleamarket for $ 25 with full docu, and on the next for about $1000. There are two lacks in my eyes in this book: There is no description of the intersil IM 6100 single board computers, the intersil 6960 sampler and the intercept junior system. Only on page 41 a short description of the Intersil IM6100 with a serial interface. I think, he is speaking about the intersil sampler without having any information about it. But it is probably impossible to list every microcomputersystem that ever existed. The second, more severe lack is the complete absence of the early development systems: Intel intellec 4 / 40 / 8 and 8-80, NSC pacer, Signetics twin and so on. They should be included in such a book, because they are certainly available on fleamarkets and in surplus stores and they are worth to be collected. The main value of this book is for identifying an unknown micro computer system which is announced without any other information: 'Xitan alpha 2 to sell, no information available'. Klemens Krause Universitaet Stuttgart Germany From lasner@sunSITE.unc.edu Thu Jul 28 08:52:06 EDT 1994 Article: 975 of alt.sys.pdp8 Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!sunSITE!lasner From: lasner@sunSITE.unc.edu (Charles Lasner) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8 Subject: Archive files newly arrived Date: 28 Jul 1994 12:52:34 GMT Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill Lines: 57 Message-ID: <3189mi$o4q@bigblue.oit.unc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: calzone.oit.unc.edu The pdp-8 archive is moving right along. Sunsite.unc.edu now has a major collection of RX50 images for the DECmate II,III,III+ which includes (at least!) all of the following: OS/278 V2 in three forms: The DM-101 release disks of the "official" binary, the DM-111 release disks of the "alleged" sources, and a personalized disk I made up a while back that includes some stuff not found elsewhere, including a working copy of Kermit-12 that will run on any of these machines. (Note: this is *not* the current release of Kermit-12, as there is no such thing! To produce the *best* version, you must patch the copy on this diskette. However, as documented in k12mit.bwr, the patch is needed only on DECmate I systems, and thus hasn't been the cause for a complete release, etc. To create a version 10h system, start with 10g such as is on this diskette, and apply the documented patch, etc.) The working diskette includes a diskcopy routine which allows copying of any RX50. Note that many DEC release disks are clearly marked "COPY DISKETTE AND USE COPY" as the booting to the diskette modifies it, possibly for the worse. (For example, WPS System disks have a once-only routine to set the date format for manual date setting. Once chosen, you cannot change the input format ever again. By using a copy, the original can be preserved to allow changing the option on another installation, etc.) Also present is an old version of TECO that mostly works on a DECmate. Curiously, it was somewhat deficient on the PDP-8, but works better on the DECmate! (It would appear that the misunderstandong of the PDP-8 keyboard handling on the part of the author, and the incompatibility of the DECmate keyboard handling relative to the PDP-8 are complementary :-)) This completes the first pass of RX50 image disks for the archive. At this point, the release disks for most of the major systems is present: Master Menu, System Test Diskette, WPS-US, CP/M-80, MS-DOS, OS/278, COS, and some assorted applications and stand-alone minor applications such as Typeasy. Additional disk images will continue to be added including games disks, etc. I will also be adding the release disks for Kermit-12 for version 10g (which includes the .bwr file that explains how to patch the binary to 10h for the benefit of the DECmate I). Without OS/278 first being in the archive, these diskette images are as useless to the average user as are the individual files elsewhere in the archive, etc. Now that the OS/278 disk images are available, it's appropriate to release the program in this form, etc. Additionally, these disks have the correct file dates while archive files are often inaccurate due to the deficient nature of FTP transfer, etc. Note that the diskette image files are now stored in the directory: .../pdp-8/diskimages *not* images. The next level of directory remains rx50 and then teledisk for the .zip files of teledisk images (.td0) and .lbl files combined, and then labels for the directory of open ASCII text files for disk labels separately. In the future, the same information may be available in an alternate format or two, but for now, teledisk images are the only interchage format, etc. cjl